MHG
Posts: 913
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 1:33 am

Re: Need help researching aircraft with short runway requirements, and airport environmental laws

Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:13 pm

SuperAzusa wrote:
A bit of an update. If anyone is interested about what has happened since. It seems they are going to go with the ATR-42-600S.

I also plan to publish an English summary of the survey on how locals feel about the airport. Surprisingly there was really strong support for the return of frequent boat planes! I guess some of the past sentiment remains when they were under the US and the military would give them boat plane rides to Guam.

Shin Maywa was really pushing hard for a civilianized US-2

The ATR42-600S might be a solution but it is a relatively slow aircraft for such a distance.
Still, the runway would have to be quite a bit longer than 800m because of neccessary safety margins.
I can´t see Shin Maywa offering a civilian version of the US-2. The costs involved would be totally unreasonable for a very limited number of airframes.

Please keep us updated how things turn out eventually.
Flying is not inherently dangerous but it is very unforgiving in case of carelessness, incapacity or neglect.
 
SuperAzusa
Topic Author
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:55 am

Re: Need help researching aircraft with short runway requirements, and airport environmental laws

Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:25 am

MHG wrote:
SuperAzusa wrote:
A bit of an update. If anyone is interested about what has happened since. It seems they are going to go with the ATR-42-600S.

I also plan to publish an English summary of the survey on how locals feel about the airport. Surprisingly there was really strong support for the return of frequent boat planes! I guess some of the past sentiment remains when they were under the US and the military would give them boat plane rides to Guam.

Shin Maywa was really pushing hard for a civilianized US-2

The ATR42-600S might be a solution but it is a relatively slow aircraft for such a distance.
Still, the runway would have to be quite a bit longer than 800m because of neccessary safety margins.
I can´t see Shin Maywa offering a civilian version of the US-2. The costs involved would be totally unreasonable for a very limited number of airframes.

Please keep us updated how things turn out eventually.


There were drawings of a conversion for 38 seats intended for flights to towns in small isolated islands (it was really obvious it was intended for Ogasawara). A pic can be found here
http://www.kjclub.com/UploadFile/exc_bo ... 7/03/7.JPG

But as you said, it would be expensive and was quickly rejected by the Tokyo Metropolitan Government.
Another idea that was rejected was to fly into Iwo Jima first with a larger jet. but the national government was against changing existing laws to allow civilian use.

In the end Koike is now saying the ATR-42 is the only option and she reduced the demand to 1000m. Not too long after I started this thread, ATR actually came down to Japan and did a presentation on how their new 600S variant could work. That was enough to sell to Koike's administration and the local mayor lol. They said the 600S needs another 2 years though.
 
MHG
Posts: 913
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 1:33 am

Re: Need help researching aircraft with short runway requirements, and airport environmental laws

Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:57 pm

Well, if she has made a decision already ...
The fact that it will take ~ 2 years until the -600S version will be availlable is not that much of an issue since the airports has yet to be built as well.
Interesting will be he question who will operate the aircraft.
So far no airline in Japan operates ATR aircraft.
For ATR it may be a way to get a foot into the Japanese market. So, maybe they could even get a "sweet deal".
Flying is not inherently dangerous but it is very unforgiving in case of carelessness, incapacity or neglect.
 
SuperAzusa
Topic Author
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:55 am

Re: Need help researching aircraft with short runway requirements, and airport environmental laws

Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:32 am

MHG wrote:
Well, if she has made a decision already ...
The fact that it will take ~ 2 years until the -600S version will be availlable is not that much of an issue since the airports has yet to be built as well.
Interesting will be he question who will operate the aircraft.
So far no airline in Japan operates ATR aircraft.
For ATR it may be a way to get a foot into the Japanese market. So, maybe they could even get a "sweet deal".


good question on who will be the operator. that hasn't been resolved.

But JAC operates ATR aircraft. They use them primarily on island routes, like to Kagoshima's islands
https://worldairlinenews.com/2018/11/04 ... tr-72-600/

ATR was also pushing them to operators in Hokkaido (for their small islands) and Okinawa
 
StephParker
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:35 am

Re: Need help researching aircraft with short runway requirements, and airport environmental laws

Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:05 am

Hello everyone, I'm doing the same kind of research on a small airport on island with high obstacles around. I can give you declared distances:
TORA: 1100 m;
LDA: 949 m.
At the moment the airport is operated by a LET410, in the past by ATR 42 and Dash8-300. I've seen also pictures of ATR72 and small business jets up to Dassault Falcon 50x. They're probably operating with weight limitations.
The answer is, with additional 150 m of TORA, now 1350 m, and the same LDA, can a SAAB 2000 operate the airport, of course with payload limitation as on the SAAB documents RWY required at MTOW at ISA + 10° C is 1285?
Where can i find the SAAB 2000 Airport Planning Manual (if exist) or AFM/AOM so i can refer on FAR/JAR(CS) graph?
In the case, as I suspect, that 949 m are too short for LDA, what will be the optimum Landing Length for the 2000? I'm aware of all the variables that affects t/o and landing ops.
 
MHG
Posts: 913
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 1:33 am

Re: Need help researching aircraft with short runway requirements, and airport environmental laws

Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:56 pm

SuperAzusa wrote:
MHG wrote:
Well, if she has made a decision already ...
The fact that it will take ~ 2 years until the -600S version will be availlable is not that much of an issue since the airports has yet to be built as well.
Interesting will be he question who will operate the aircraft.
So far no airline in Japan operates ATR aircraft.
For ATR it may be a way to get a foot into the Japanese market. So, maybe they could even get a "sweet deal".


good question on who will be the operator. that hasn't been resolved.

But JAC operates ATR aircraft. They use them primarily on island routes, like to Kagoshima's islands
https://worldairlinenews.com/2018/11/04 ... tr-72-600/

ATR was also pushing them to operators in Hokkaido (for their small islands) and Okinawa



Well, here´s a (positive) update ...
ATR´s board of directors has approved the ATR42-600S project.
The company expects the certification of the "S"-version in second half of 2022 and first deliveries immediately after certification.
See: http://www.atraircraft.com/newsroom/pre ... 71-en.html
Flying is not inherently dangerous but it is very unforgiving in case of carelessness, incapacity or neglect.

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