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FL52RA41
Topic Author
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Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 7:32 pm

AN-12 Cargo Aircraft Crew?

Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:12 am

Morning All

As far as I know their is a 5 man crew on the AN-12 Cargo aircraft. 2 pilots, 1 navigator, 1 flight engineer, 1 radio op. But does anyone what position the guy sat in the middle of the two pilots is, as seeing an online video of the AN-12 flight deck he his doing checks etc all way through the flight. His he another flight engineer?
 
IWMBH
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Re: AN-12 Cargo Aircraft Crew?

Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:52 am

I think thats the navigator
 
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mach144
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Re: AN-12 Cargo Aircraft Crew?

Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:14 pm

According to Flight Manual An-12's flight crew consists of minimum 5 members (captain - commander of an aircraft, first officer - copilot, flight engineer, navigator and radio operator). Sixth crew member is usually loadmaster. On Soviet era aircraft is behind the pilots positioned a flight engineer (or flight mechanic) whose task is to deal with throttles, flaps and landing gear in all phases of flight. Pilot flying gives commands to flight engineer what to do. Pilot's only task during flight is to steer the aircraft...
 
727200
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Re: AN-12 Cargo Aircraft Crew?

Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:55 pm

Is that the socialistic view of giving people a job? He only steers the plane? I wont even comment on the lack of efficiency on this.
 
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Florianopolis
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Re: AN-12 Cargo Aircraft Crew?

Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:33 pm

727200 wrote:
Is that the socialistic view of giving people a job? He only steers the plane? I wont even comment on the lack of efficiency on this.


Tough union contracts.
 
727200
Posts: 633
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Re: AN-12 Cargo Aircraft Crew?

Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:38 pm

Florianopolis wrote:
727200 wrote:
Is that the socialistic view of giving people a job? He only steers the plane? I wont even comment on the lack of efficiency on this.


Tough union contracts.



I guess.

Rumor is on the next contract he will just sit there and only move his eyes.
 
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mach144
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Re: AN-12 Cargo Aircraft Crew?

Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:51 pm

A nice video of Belarus Il-76 crew work during take-off and landing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuRzsoGNNU8

Pilot's both hands are almost 'glued' on a steering column yoke...
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: AN-12 Cargo Aircraft Crew?

Sun Sep 02, 2018 10:39 pm

Funny, a squadron mate came from EC-130s who, due to the nature of the beast had navs, radio operators and electronic systems guys. The two radio operators were tasked with sending position reports on over water legs. He said C-5 pilots were really “navs that got to do landings”. At that time, we were still hand writing out international flight plans, manual fuel planning off a somewhat reliable CFP.

GF
 
FL52RA41
Topic Author
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 7:32 pm

Re: AN-12 Cargo Aircraft Crew?

Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:31 am

Being looking at a few more AN-12 videos, with the navigator in the nose I don't recall any of the air force having an aircraft like that.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: AN-12 Cargo Aircraft Crew?

Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:39 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
... a somewhat reliable CFP.


??? What was your backup when the CFP was inop? A reliable prayer wheel (E6B)?
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: AN-12 Cargo Aircraft Crew?

Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:14 pm

It were, indeed, flat, circular objects and sharp, pointy ones. It wouldn’t be unusual to use yesterday’s CFP or last week’s, for that matter, get the ATC routing, adjust for the current winds, write it out on form and order the fuel. It wasn’t until post-Desert Storm that getting current plans were assured except for long overwater legs, which we always received with the NAT message. You are a pilot and supposed to know how to navigate, after all.
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 2252
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Re: AN-12 Cargo Aircraft Crew?

Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:30 am

Yep, the "analog flight bag".

NAT tracks, not to be confused with mp3.
 
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Loran
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Re: AN-12 Cargo Aircraft Crew?

Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:34 am

mach144 wrote:
On Soviet era aircraft is behind the pilots positioned a flight engineer (or flight mechanic) whose task is to deal with throttles, flaps and landing gear in all phases of flight. Pilot flying gives commands to flight engineer what to do. Pilot's only task during flight is to steer the aircraft...

The An-12 is somewhat different from the other Soviet-era types. The throttles are left and right from the pilot / co-pilot seats, and not adjusted by the flight engineer who sits between the two on a swivel chair. I have recorded a cockpit video during one of my An-12 flights:

https://youtu.be/Aff9H3kiyZM

The radio operator sits much lower behind the co-pilot. The navigator obviously in the glass nose and the pilots and engineer sit on elevated chairs .
The load master is a firm part of the crew and usually sits in the crew compartment. Often there are also additional ground support engineers and other staff. Sometimes I had up top 9 crew on those flights.

Regards,
Loran
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GalaxyFlyer
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Re: AN-12 Cargo Aircraft Crew?

Tue Sep 04, 2018 2:47 pm

It’s amazing you could see anything as a pilot, so much equipment scattered on the glare shield.

GF
 
JAGflyer
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Re: AN-12 Cargo Aircraft Crew?

Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:09 am

mach144 wrote:
A nice video of Belarus Il-76 crew work during take-off and landing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuRzsoGNNU8

Pilot's both hands are almost 'glued' on a steering column yoke...


All of those EGPWS calls don't sound very good. They're getting terrain calls before they've even left the ground. :o
If you flew today, thank a Flight Dispatcher!
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: AN-12 Cargo Aircraft Crew?

Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:00 pm

727200 wrote:
Is that the socialistic view of giving people a job? He only steers the plane? I wont even comment on the lack of efficiency on this.


Different eras -- different design philosophies and operational priorities.

What would you say, if you learned that Boeing 314, as per Pan Am manuals and procedures, was NO GO with less than two professional radio operators on board? And that total cockpit crew was, AFAIR, nine minimum (sometimes they carried a double crew)? That Pan Am was in the business of maximizing employment?
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