Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
stratclub wrote:On a Boeing, there is an issue date and an expiration date for the nav data base. If your data base is expired, you have to download and install the latest version. Not really rocket science because in general, all Boeing aircraft use the same nav data base. The most likely download source is a memory stick with data downloaded from a secure server over the Internet.
kitplane01 wrote:stratclub wrote:On a Boeing, there is an issue date and an expiration date for the nav data base. If your data base is expired, you have to download and install the latest version. Not really rocket science because in general, all Boeing aircraft use the same nav data base. The most likely download source is a memory stick with data downloaded from a secure server over the Internet.
Is it he same DB for all Boeing? It’s not tied to a specific aircraft? Makes me wonder how Boeing does the billing, if you can reuse the file.
stratclub wrote:kitplane01 wrote:stratclub wrote:On a Boeing, there is an issue date and an expiration date for the nav data base. If your data base is expired, you have to download and install the latest version. Not really rocket science because in general, all Boeing aircraft use the same nav data base. The most likely download source is a memory stick with data downloaded from a secure server over the Internet.
Is it he same DB for all Boeing? It’s not tied to a specific aircraft? Makes me wonder how Boeing does the billing, if you can reuse the file.
The nav data base is snapshot of current nav details for the entire planet. Why would it be different for a 737 or a 787? The planet does not change depending on what aircraft you are in. Most likely for in service aircraft the Nav data base comes from the carriers operations department and may not even be generated by Boeing.
Who really cares who pays or it?
T54A wrote:Neither Boeing, nor Airbus provide NavDB. Generally an airline will get their NavDB from a certified supplier (Honeywell, NavBlue, Jepp). Even two of the same aircraft types in a fleet can have different NavDB suppliers if they have different FMS’s onboard (Honeywell vs Thales). Airline will have a contract with relevant NavDB supplier who will issue updates ever 28 days or custom data in between updates (off cycle update) if and when required.
747Whale wrote:FMS generally store 2 databases, with a changeover date. Part of the cockpit preflight and setup is to determine that the correct database is selected. In some aircraft, especially older ones, the FMS wouldn't hold a global database, so regional data is entered, and if the aircraft moves to another region, the new database must be downloaded and installed.
The data is tailored to the operator. There's often a cutoff point for airports with a minimum runway length; airports less than that, or which aren't available to the aircraft, aren't included in the database. Likewise, on my electronic flight bag, many airports aren't in my jepp database either, as we won't be flying there and those airports aren't an option for me.
fr8mech wrote:We’re slowly moving to a wireless update on our A300. Bring the update device to the aircraft, wirelessly upload to the server, then the aircraft does the rest.
All our other aircraft get the update device plugged into a connector on the flight deck, or directly into the FMC.
acmx wrote:What is the benefit of the wireless update if you have to take a device out to the plane and upload the data to the plane vs using a pdl and installing the database by physically connecting? Is it quicker that way? I’m just curious why they would invest money in that system if you still have to send an amt out to the plane to do the update. Is the end goal to have it happen automatically at the gate?
stratclub wrote:kitplane01 wrote:stratclub wrote:On a Boeing, there is an issue date and an expiration date for the nav data base. If your data base is expired, you have to download and install the latest version. Not really rocket science because in general, all Boeing aircraft use the same nav data base. The most likely download source is a memory stick with data downloaded from a secure server over the Internet.
Is it he same DB for all Boeing? It’s not tied to a specific aircraft? Makes me wonder how Boeing does the billing, if you can reuse the file.
The nav data base is snapshot of current nav details for the entire planet. Why would it be different for a 737 or a 787? The planet does not change depending on what aircraft you are in. Most likely for in service aircraft the Nav data base comes from the carriers operations department and may not even be generated by Boeing.
Who really cares who pays or it?
WPvsMW wrote:Will Boeing or Airbus advise the pilots that they have a superseded, or corrupted, NDB loaded? Technically, B and A could do this, just wondering if they do.
fr8mech wrote:[code][/code]WPvsMW wrote:Will Boeing or Airbus advise the pilots that they have a superseded, or corrupted, NDB loaded? Technically, B and A could do this, just wondering if they do.
Why does Boeing or Airbus care? The Nav Database is customized to, or by, the customer to their specifications. The Nav Databases also have an expiration date that is clearly shown on the FMC. We run a monthly cycle, yet due to FMC capacity issues, will change databases more frequently.
WPvsMW wrote:Boeing and Airbus get paid for providing AHM (airplane health management, aka remote monitoring, https://www.boeing.com/commercial/aerom ... _07_1.html). B and A don't care about what the operator does with the info, B and A just provide it.... mostly engine performance related.
kitplane01 wrote:stratclub wrote:kitplane01 wrote:
Is it he same DB for all Boeing? It’s not tied to a specific aircraft? Makes me wonder how Boeing does the billing, if you can reuse the file.
The nav data base is snapshot of current nav details for the entire planet. Why would it be different for a 737 or a 787? The planet does not change depending on what aircraft you are in. Most likely for in service aircraft the Nav data base comes from the carriers operations department and may not even be generated by Boeing.
Who really cares who pays or it?
I only know Garmin for small planes. But they also ship the world database, digitally signed for only your aircraft. That way you cannot share the file and Garmin can get paid.
fr8mech wrote:Once the transfer to the onboard server is complete, the AMT can move to another aircraft and comlete the same task. He needs to return to each aircraft he does and verify that the load is complete and the data correct, but the upload device (not a PDL anymore), isn't tied to the aircraft during the load. It takes only a couple of minutes to transfer from the upload device to the aircraft.
747Whale wrote:kitplane01 wrote:stratclub wrote:The nav data base is snapshot of current nav details for the entire planet. Why would it be different for a 737 or a 787? The planet does not change depending on what aircraft you are in. Most likely for in service aircraft the Nav data base comes from the carriers operations department and may not even be generated by Boeing.
Who really cares who pays or it?
I only know Garmin for small planes. But they also ship the world database, digitally signed for only your aircraft. That way you cannot share the file and Garmin can get paid.
Operators can request specifics on their database. It may exclude all airports with runways less than 7,000', for example.
Light airplane data, especially data such as TFR's that updates on Foreflight or various Garmin systems with XM input, for example, receive data and transmit data at different times. A few years ago using both while negotiating a lot of fires in the Idaho wilderness areas, I noticed that one device might show a TFR adjacent to my position, while another didn't. The data didn't agree.
The cutoff times for that data to be reported to the different providers varies, and the data won't always be the same across different devices or systems. That's actually more data in the cockpit than many large airplanes get, and the database belongs with the FMS or FMC. It's similar to the data you'll get in the light airplane, without a lot of the extras. On the other hand, I've talked to a lot of private pilots who think their xm weather information in the cockpit is as good as inflight radar, and it's not, especially given time delays in uploads of the weather data. Off topic, a bit, but there are some differences in the way you receive and use the data, and what you get.
acmx wrote:Makes sense. I was just thinking you would have to be there for the start and then go back and verify the load anyways. But if you go from gate to gate or pass the device around, a lot of planes could get done on a single hub turn. Do you have to do something from inside the plane to initiate the transfer or can you do it from outside the plane? Like can you just pull up under the nose of the plane and upload the data without entering the plane?
stratclub wrote:kitplane01 wrote:stratclub wrote:On a Boeing, there is an issue date and an expiration date for the nav data base. If your data base is expired, you have to download and install the latest version. Not really rocket science because in general, all Boeing aircraft use the same nav data base. The most likely download source is a memory stick with data downloaded from a secure server over the Internet.
Is it he same DB for all Boeing? It’s not tied to a specific aircraft? Makes me wonder how Boeing does the billing, if you can reuse the file.
The nav data base is snapshot of current nav details for the entire planet. Why would it be different for a 737 or a 787? The planet does not change depending on what aircraft you are in. Most likely for in service aircraft the Nav data base comes from the carriers operations department and may not even be generated by Boeing.
Who really cares who pays or it?
GalaxyFlyer wrote:...I’ve had pilots at great expense update the JeppView FD app in-flight-$2500 per load.
GF
Yikes! wrote:As an aside, the update frequency is every 56 days and effective always at 0901Z on the first day of the cycle and on every system. Most boxes (FMS) have the capability of holding two updates - one that is active and one that is either coming into effect at a later date, or, if that new one hasn't been loaded, the former expired update. Good topic!