vtdl
Topic Author
Posts: 74
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:15 am

Question on ANA's departure from SJC

Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:29 am

Most flights take off from San Jose Airport (SJC) to a destination to the north would follow, what I understand is called, the "loop 9 departure" procedure. However, I do notice the ANA171 flights often do not follow this procedure. It takes off, turns left to NW, and off it goes. Northwest of SJC is normally where the SFO traffic is. As for comparison, the CHH7990 flights to Beijing, similar destination and identical aircraft (B788) mostly do the "loop 9 departure" like everyone else. Anybody knows why? Did ANA have a special exemption?

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ANA ... /KSJC/RJAA
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/CHH ... /KSJC/ZBAA
 
sohanb82
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:37 am

Re: Question on ANA's departure from SJC

Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:10 pm

I would assume it has something to do with the flight plan. ANA's flight flies West of SFO whereas the Beijing flight flies east of SFO and heads almost directly north.
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1367
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: Question on ANA's departure from SJC

Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:18 pm

I don’t know why, but the flights to Tokyo have always (or the majority of the time) done that departure going back to when AA flew the route.
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1367
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: Question on ANA's departure from SJC

Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:27 pm

Wow, this is strange. The HU flight wasn’t assigned the LOUPE departure, it was given TECKY3 TECKY then SJC. maybe that gets them higher than the LOUPE before getting over the bay and the SFO traffic?
 
AirFiero
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Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: Question on ANA's departure from SJC

Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:50 pm

I punched the filed route into ForeFlight, and it shows direct SFO at 3,500 then direct MOLEN intersection, which is right at the tip of Point Reyes. This is a much lower altitude route on departure. I’m assuming the route is setting up an oceanic track route. The flight to Beijing uses a route more over land.

The actual route to Tokyo on the flight that you linked appears to get a vector more initially to the west and then to the north west. I don’t know if getting a vector is typical or if they end up flying the filed route more often.
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6314
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: Question on ANA's departure from SJC

Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:56 pm

AirFiero wrote:
I don’t know why, but the flights to Tokyo have always (or the majority of the time) done that departure going back to when AA flew the route.


That is correct. I’ve flown AA’s SJC-NRT flight several times and NH’s once. Each time we did the same pattern. Flew straight up the peninsula at 5000 feet. No loop. It’s a very spectacular departure because you stay at 5000 feet until passing off the coast around Pacifica.

I have on one occasion from the ground seen AA’s NRT flight going around the loop though.
 
timz
Posts: 6570
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

Re: Question on ANA's departure from SJC

Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:54 pm

AirFiero wrote:
I punched the filed route into ForeFlight, and it shows direct SFO at 3,500

Must be just for clerical reasons, or something. They'd never actually do that, of course. They climb to 5000 and turn WNW to pass under the SFO arrival stream from the south.

Like he said, that's what AA MD11s to Tokyo did too. Never the Loupe.
 
vtdl
Topic Author
Posts: 74
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:15 am

Re: Question on ANA's departure from SJC

Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:46 pm

By chance, today's (1/21/2019) ANA171 did take the "loop 9" and out to the Pacific over Half Moon Bay.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ANA ... /KSJC/RJAA

The best comparison is yesterday's (1/20/2019) CHH2990 that few inland over Oregon, Washington, Alaska,
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/CHH ... /KSJC/ZBAA
 
sonicruiser
Posts: 553
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:18 am

Re: Question on ANA's departure from SJC

Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:25 am

vtdl wrote:
By chance, today's (1/21/2019) ANA171 did take the "loop 9" and out to the Pacific over Half Moon Bay.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ANA ... /KSJC/RJAA

The best comparison is yesterday's (1/20/2019) CHH2990 that few inland over Oregon, Washington, Alaska,
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/CHH ... /KSJC/ZBAA


And they said pilots don't read A.net.
 
phatfarmlines
Posts: 1441
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 12:06 pm

Re: Question on ANA's departure from SJC

Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:43 am

vtdl wrote:
Most flights take off from San Jose Airport (SJC) to a destination to the north would follow, what I understand is called, the "loop 9 departure" procedure. However, I do notice the ANA171 flights often do not follow this procedure. It takes off, turns left to NW, and off it goes. Northwest of SJC is normally where the SFO traffic is.


That takeoff pattern would interfere with SFO downwinds for the 28L/28R TippToe Visual, no?
 
26point2
Posts: 1076
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:01 am

Re: Question on ANA's departure from SJC

Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:35 am

No it doesn't interfere with SFO arrivals. The SJC departures toward Pacific destinations (Hawaii, Asia) are cleared to OSI VORTAC (but I've always been given vectors and have never actually flown to OSI) and cross the ridge west of the airport at 5000'. inbound SFO arrivals are at 6000'+ over this ridge. Once past the SFO downwind arrival corridor a higher altitude is given.
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1367
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: Question on ANA's departure from SJC

Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:14 pm

26point2 wrote:
No it doesn't interfere with SFO arrivals. The SJC departures toward Pacific destinations (Hawaii, Asia) are cleared to OSI VORTAC (but I've always been given vectors and have never actually flown to OSI) and cross the ridge west of the airport at 5000'. inbound SFO arrivals are at 6000'+ over this ridge. Once past the SFO downwind arrival corridor a higher altitude is given.


Do you figure that OSI in the filed route is just lost comms, and the clearance pretty much assumes a vector?
 
26point2
Posts: 1076
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:01 am

Re: Question on ANA's departure from SJC

Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:56 pm

The ATC clearance off SJC runway 30L/R is “Fly runway heading, vectors Woodside (OSI). Maintain 3000’.“ Once vectored away from runway heading you are given clearance to climb to 5000’ until nearing the coast at which point you will be clear of all SFO arrival traffic above. Then cleared direct your oceanic outbound gate fix and a further climb. Piece of cake. OSI is given for lost comm purposes and why I’ve never actually been over OSI.

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