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How is AVOD content uploaded to aircraft?

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:45 pm
by BEG2IAH
Hi guys. Simple question: how do you upload AVOD content to an aircraft? Is it done at the gate through WiFi, or some cable, or pushed in fight via satellite?

Thanks.

Re: How is AVOD content uploaded to aircraft?

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:28 am
by shamrock137
BEG2IAH wrote:
Hi guys. Simple question: how do you upload AVOD content to an aircraft? Is it done at the gate through WiFi, or some cable, or pushed in fight via satellite?

Thanks.


Depends on the system fitted. Previously, flight attendants would pick up VHS and sometimes Hi8 tapes before each trip with all the inflght entertainment. Most airlines are on a monthly or bi monthly roataion and the updates to the IFE are done with all the above you mentioned. Some are able to do it remotely through WiFi, but most that I know of require the programming to be manually uploaded. However, on some systems that next months programming can be uploaded in advance and the system clock determines which programs are shown.

I've heard stories told by FA's from the time when they used to use tapes where they would bring their own movies, drop the screen only in the last row and watch films only for the crew. Or on holidays like Christmas they would bring movies like National Lampoon Christmas Vacation. Gone are those days though....

Re: How is AVOD content uploaded to aircraft?

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:05 am
by TTailedTiger
shamrock137 wrote:
BEG2IAH wrote:
Hi guys. Simple question: how do you upload AVOD content to an aircraft? Is it done at the gate through WiFi, or some cable, or pushed in fight via satellite?

Thanks.


Depends on the system fitted. Previously, flight attendants would pick up VHS and sometimes Hi8 tapes before each trip with all the inflght entertainment. Most airlines are on a monthly or bi monthly roataion and the updates to the IFE are done with all the above you mentioned. Some are able to do it remotely through WiFi, but most that I know of require the programming to be manually uploaded. However, on some systems that next months programming can be uploaded in advance and the system clock determines which programs are shown.

I've heard stories told by FA's from the time when they used to use tapes where they would bring their own movies, drop the screen only in the last row and watch films only for the crew. Or on holidays like Christmas they would bring movies like National Lampoon Christmas Vacation. Gone are those days though....


I would say thank goodness those days are gone. That's very selfish to play a movie just for a few crew members and deprive the paying passengers the entertainment that they were supposed to be enjoying. Kind of like when a flight attendant holds back their choice of meal before offering selections to passengers. Then someone gets stuck with only one choice of meal.

Re: How is AVOD content uploaded to aircraft?

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:23 pm
by BEG2IAH
Thanks, shamrock137.

I heard of something like "ADO 2.11" at the gate, but I might have misheard it. Is that some kind of (wire) port?

Re: How is AVOD content uploaded to aircraft?

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:28 pm
by vxg
Probably it was 802.11 - basically a WiFi protocol.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11

Re: How is AVOD content uploaded to aircraft?

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:32 pm
by BEG2IAH
Thank, vxg. That makes more sense. :)

Re: How is AVOD content uploaded to aircraft?

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:58 pm
by unimproved
With us it gets loaded by Panasonic technicians using the service port on the IFE system.

Here's a video which shows the equipment used: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiahz8pW7Yk

Re: How is AVOD content uploaded to aircraft?

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:30 pm
by BEG2IAH
unimproved wrote:
With us it gets loaded by Panasonic technicians using the service port on the IFE system.

Here's a video which shows the equipment used: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiahz8pW7Yk


Thanks!

Re: How is AVOD content uploaded to aircraft?

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:51 pm
by flyingclrs727
TTailedTiger wrote:
shamrock137 wrote:
BEG2IAH wrote:
Hi guys. Simple question: how do you upload AVOD content to an aircraft? Is it done at the gate through WiFi, or some cable, or pushed in fight via satellite?

Thanks.


Depends on the system fitted. Previously, flight attendants would pick up VHS and sometimes Hi8 tapes before each trip with all the inflght entertainment. Most airlines are on a monthly or bi monthly roataion and the updates to the IFE are done with all the above you mentioned. Some are able to do it remotely through WiFi, but most that I know of require the programming to be manually uploaded. However, on some systems that next months programming can be uploaded in advance and the system clock determines which programs are shown.

I've heard stories told by FA's from the time when they used to use tapes where they would bring their own movies, drop the screen only in the last row and watch films only for the crew. Or on holidays like Christmas they would bring movies like National Lampoon Christmas Vacation. Gone are those days though....


I would say thank goodness those days are gone. That's very selfish to play a movie just for a few crew members and deprive the paying passengers the entertainment that they were supposed to be enjoying. Kind of like when a flight attendant holds back their choice of meal before offering selections to passengers. Then someone gets stuck with only one choice of meal.


I'm sure flight crew got tired of the same film playing over and over again. Also there are copyright issues involved. The crew can't just substitute any old tape to be shown to all the passengers.

Re: How is AVOD content uploaded to aircraft?

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:21 am
by planecane
flyingclrs727 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
shamrock137 wrote:

Depends on the system fitted. Previously, flight attendants would pick up VHS and sometimes Hi8 tapes before each trip with all the inflght entertainment. Most airlines are on a monthly or bi monthly roataion and the updates to the IFE are done with all the above you mentioned. Some are able to do it remotely through WiFi, but most that I know of require the programming to be manually uploaded. However, on some systems that next months programming can be uploaded in advance and the system clock determines which programs are shown.

I've heard stories told by FA's from the time when they used to use tapes where they would bring their own movies, drop the screen only in the last row and watch films only for the crew. Or on holidays like Christmas they would bring movies like National Lampoon Christmas Vacation. Gone are those days though....


I would say thank goodness those days are gone. That's very selfish to play a movie just for a few crew members and deprive the paying passengers the entertainment that they were supposed to be enjoying. Kind of like when a flight attendant holds back their choice of meal before offering selections to passengers. Then someone gets stuck with only one choice of meal.


I'm sure flight crew got tired of the same film playing over and over again. Also there are copyright issues involved. The crew can't just substitute any old tape to be shown to all the passengers.


As long as there is no charge to view, copyright wouldn't be much of a concern. If an FA owns a copy of something, showing it for free wouldn't be a big deal. The copyright owner would need to make a case that part of the ticket was a charge to watch.

Re: How is AVOD content uploaded to aircraft?

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 5:19 am
by USAirKid
planecane wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

I would say thank goodness those days are gone. That's very selfish to play a movie just for a few crew members and deprive the paying passengers the entertainment that they were supposed to be enjoying. Kind of like when a flight attendant holds back their choice of meal before offering selections to passengers. Then someone gets stuck with only one choice of meal.


I'm sure flight crew got tired of the same film playing over and over again. Also there are copyright issues involved. The crew can't just substitute any old tape to be shown to all the passengers.


As long as there is no charge to view, copyright wouldn't be much of a concern. If an FA owns a copy of something, showing it for free wouldn't be a big deal. The copyright owner would need to make a case that part of the ticket was a charge to watch.


It doesn't matter if it is charged for or not. An airplane is a public place as far as copyright law is concerned, and most VHS tapes are licensed for home performances only. Since the license for the movie is for home performance only, its a violation of the movie's copyright.

Re: How is AVOD content uploaded to aircraft?

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:04 am
by TTailedTiger
USAirKid wrote:
planecane wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:

I'm sure flight crew got tired of the same film playing over and over again. Also there are copyright issues involved. The crew can't just substitute any old tape to be shown to all the passengers.


As long as there is no charge to view, copyright wouldn't be much of a concern. If an FA owns a copy of something, showing it for free wouldn't be a big deal. The copyright owner would need to make a case that part of the ticket was a charge to watch.


It doesn't matter if it is charged for or not. An airplane is a public place as far as copyright law is concerned, and most VHS tapes are licensed for home performances only. Since the license for the movie is for home performance only, its a violation of the movie's copyright.


Some cities and towns have a movie in the park night each week during the summer. Are they paying a royalty to the studio to show the movie in public?

Re: How is AVOD content uploaded to aircraft?

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:14 am
by tommy1808
TTailedTiger wrote:
Some cities and towns have a movie in the park night each week during the summer. Are they paying a royalty to the studio to show the movie in public?


Having had my own event cinema for a few years: it depends. You only pay your normal share of the ticket price, even if the location allows other people sneak a peek without a ticket, if you sell tickets. If you show for free in open space, you do pay for public showing.

unimproved wrote:
With us it gets loaded by Panasonic technicians using the service port on the IFE system.

Here's a video which shows the equipment used: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiahz8pW7Yk


We once made a system for Lufthansa Technik that worked on AES encrypted SSDs, with the unlock password securely stored in the system BIOS, so they could just mail new content and anyone could load it into the System w//o risk of unauthorized copies. Afaik it ended up being deployed on Greyhound buses. That was 6~7 years ago, i would expect newer systems to work along those lines or update via Wifi at the gate.

best regards
Thomas

Re: How is AVOD content uploaded to aircraft?

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:01 am
by wpnstroop
I love how these posts digress into a completely off topic bunch of nonsense.

Re: How is AVOD content uploaded to aircraft?

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:10 am
by planecane
TTailedTiger wrote:
USAirKid wrote:
planecane wrote:

As long as there is no charge to view, copyright wouldn't be much of a concern. If an FA owns a copy of something, showing it for free wouldn't be a big deal. The copyright owner would need to make a case that part of the ticket was a charge to watch.


It doesn't matter if it is charged for or not. An airplane is a public place as far as copyright law is concerned, and most VHS tapes are licensed for home performances only. Since the license for the movie is for home performance only, its a violation of the movie's copyright.


Some cities and towns have a movie in the park night each week during the summer. Are they paying a royalty to the studio to show the movie in public?


The movie nights require a payment (or at least permission) because the event is for the purpose of showing the movie. If an FA showed a movie on a plane, it is a different situation. The flight wasn't advertised as a showing of the movie and the passengers would have been unaware in advance that it was going to be shown. I will guarantee that no copyright owner would even do so much as send an email to the FA if they did this. Now, if a particular FA became known on social media for always doing this and announcing what flights they would be on that would change things.

Re: How is AVOD content uploaded to aircraft?

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:44 pm
by unimproved
tommy1808 wrote:
unimproved wrote:
With us it gets loaded by Panasonic technicians using the service port on the IFE system.

Here's a video which shows the equipment used: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiahz8pW7Yk


We once made a system for Lufthansa Technik that worked on AES encrypted SSDs, with the unlock password securely stored in the system BIOS, so they could just mail new content and anyone could load it into the System w//o risk of unauthorized copies. Afaik it ended up being deployed on Greyhound buses. That was 6~7 years ago, i would expect newer systems to work along those lines or update via Wifi at the gate.

best regards
Thomas

All service on our IFE system gets done by Panasonic, including hardware repairs and replacements. They've got their own media loader which is a suitcase running on linux.

It's gotten a lot quicker over the years, but you're still copying a large amount of data. And considering updating the Boeing toolbox iPad already takes multiple tries over wifi the suitcase-with-a-cable approach doesn't seem too bad.

Re: How is AVOD content uploaded to aircraft?

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:10 pm
by tommy1808
unimproved wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
unimproved wrote:
With us it gets loaded by Panasonic technicians using the service port on the IFE system.

Here's a video which shows the equipment used: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiahz8pW7Yk


We once made a system for Lufthansa Technik that worked on AES encrypted SSDs, with the unlock password securely stored in the system BIOS, so they could just mail new content and anyone could load it into the System w//o risk of unauthorized copies. Afaik it ended up being deployed on Greyhound buses. That was 6~7 years ago, i would expect newer systems to work along those lines or update via Wifi at the gate.

best regards
Thomas

All service on our IFE system gets done by Panasonic, including hardware repairs and replacements. They've got their own media loader which is a suitcase running on linux.

It's gotten a lot quicker over the years, but you're still copying a large amount of data. And considering updating the Boeing toolbox iPad already takes multiple tries over wifi the suitcase-with-a-cable approach doesn't seem too bad.


Dang, that is slow. The SSD swap variant was just "open slot, pull out old SSD, put in new SSD, done, new library available on next start up". .... and you didnt need a chain of trusted personal in the loop.
Wi-Fi can be amazingly fast, but not with those dinky antennae in an iPad, smartphone or such. Good LoS 2x2 Mimo connection rivals gigabit Ethernet.
If I had such an inquiry today I would probably still stick with the SSD swap. Not an option for most mobile devices though.

Best regards
Thomas

Re: How is AVOD content uploaded to aircraft?

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:43 pm
by USAirKid
planecane wrote:
I will guarantee that no copyright owner would even do so much as send an email to the FA if they did this. Now, if a particular FA became known on social media for always doing this and announcing what flights they would be on that would change things.


Of course. I was providing information on the law. Just because the copyright owner didn't send an email, doesn't mean it wasn't illegal. It just means that the copyright owner chose not to enforce their rights.

Re: How is AVOD content uploaded to aircraft?

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:56 pm
by ChrisKen
TTailedTiger wrote:

Some cities and towns have a movie in the park night each week during the summer. Are they paying a royalty to the studio to show the movie in public?

Are they? Don't know. Should they be? That's an affirmative. Usually done via a performance license.

All those shops, cafes, bars etc etc (public spaces) playing music, should be paying the fees.
In the UK (or elsewhere) that's usually done via a company like PRS (https://www.prsformusic.com/).
The music industry has become increasingly particular about enforcing their copyrights in recent years. Film companies are also becoming very pro-active in enforcing their rights.

Re: How is AVOD content uploaded to aircraft?

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:04 am
by teachpdx
The DL A220s have wireless seatback IFE. No annoying boxes on the floor!

I was on the first revenue flight of N103DN and the flight map had its “first run download” when I opened it lol.