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Color Blind - Class I medical

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:16 am
by nati5860
Hello there.
I'm trying to obtain my Class I medical but I've failed the ishihara test.
I've taken the next tests with more AME's:

1.Ishihara
2.AO-HRR
3.DVORINE
4.FARNSWORTH D-15

Failed them too with minor mistakes.
I'm going to have my OCVT + MFT tests next week and I'm please asking you guys for some help if you have any advises for me.
Thanks.

Re: Color Blind - Class I medical

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:00 am
by 787Driver
You can’t get a class 1 medical if you are colorblind afaik

Re: Color Blind - Class I medical

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:17 am
by 747Whale
If you've been unable to pass with the Farnsworth Lantern, chances are you won't pass with anything. That's the bad news.

You should be working through a service that specializes in special-issuance medicals; once you use up your tests, you're done, and can't test again. Before you get to that point, it's best to consult with a group that works with those with special medical needs. Leftseat.com is one such place. There are others.

Re: Color Blind - Class I medical

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:53 am
by nati5860
787Driver wrote:
You can’t get a class 1 medical if you are colorblind afaik


I'm from Israel and I understand that I can get LOE(Letter of Evidence). But at least I need to pass the OCVT test and MFT. That's the light signal test.

747Whale wrote:
If you've been unable to pass with the Farnsworth Lantern, chances are you won't pass with anything. That's the bad news.

You should be working through a service that specializes in special-issuance medicals; once you use up your tests, you're done, and can't test again. Before you get to that point, it's best to consult with a group that works with those with special medical needs. Leftseat.com is one such place. There are others.


I didn't try Fransworth Lantern only D15.

Re: Color Blind - Class I medical

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:30 pm
by arcticcruiser
I failed the Ishihara back in 1977, but passed the Lantern and some others I cant recall. Class 1 medical now for 42 yrs...
Try how you come out with the City University test, not sure if it is certified, but it was developed with the UK CAA. I had no problems with this one.

https://www.city.ac.uk/health/research/centre-for-applied-vision-research/a-new-web-based-colour-vision-test

Re: Color Blind - Class I medical

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:50 pm
by sixtyseven
I have a color problem and an airline pilot

I fail the Ishihara. But pass easily the Farnsworth D-15 and the Lantern. In Canada these two tests were available as alternatives to the Ishihara. I believe they have stricken the Lantern test as acceptable these days.

I’m sorry to hear this for you. Good luck with your goal.

Re: Color Blind - Class I medical

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:11 pm
by nati5860
Is it possible to get Class I restricted for daylight only ?
I mean a commercial restricted.
Because I'm waiting for medical committee results.

Re: Color Blind - Class I medical

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:51 pm
by 747Whale
nati5860 wrote:
Is it possible to get Class I restricted for daylight only ?
I mean a commercial restricted.
Because I'm waiting for medical committee results.


A class 1 medical certificate is required to exercise the privileges of an ATP (airline transport pilot) certificate.

A class II medical certificate is required to exercise the privileges of a commercial pilot certificate.

Are you asking if you can be colorblind and simply fly in the daylight? What about recognizing colors in the day? Aeronautical charts are color coded. During a lost communication situation, control tower light gun signals are color coded. Aircraft position lights are color coded. Some aircraft, like the Cessna Citation, use color coding in the cockpit for circuit breakers and other features. Weather radar is color coded.

Enchroma makes glasses that can help the colorblind to see colors. I don't know anything about the legality of their use for pilots or for flying or how they play into the medical certification. I suspect that they might be a problem for night flight.

Re: Color Blind - Class I medical

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:32 pm
by wildwobby
Yes, you can get a medical with a restriction that reads “NOT VALID BY NIGHTFLYING OR COLOR SIGNAL CONTROL”.
However, lots of places won’t hire a commercial pilot who is unable to fly at night.

The color signal control limitation is quite meaningless because color signal control is generally only necessary for radio failure (emergency), and deviations are allowed in emergencies.

No restrictions for daytime flying though.

747Whale wrote:
nati5860 wrote:
Is it possible to get Class I restricted for daylight only ?
I mean a commercial restricted.
Because I'm waiting for medical committee results.


A class 1 medical certificate is required to exercise the privileges of an ATP (airline transport pilot) certificate.

A class II medical certificate is required to exercise the privileges of a commercial pilot certificate.

Are you asking if you can be colorblind and simply fly in the daylight? What about recognizing colors in the day? Aeronautical charts are color coded. During a lost communication situation, control tower light gun signals are color coded. Aircraft position lights are color coded. Some aircraft, like the Cessna Citation, use color coding in the cockpit for circuit breakers and other features. Weather radar is color coded.

Enchroma makes glasses that can help the colorblind to see colors. I don't know anything about the legality of their use for pilots or for flying or how they play into the medical certification. I suspect that they might be a problem for night flight.


Colorblind people CAN see colors - it is just harder to make distinctions between CERTAIN shades of colors, most often certain shades of red and green. Most people with colorblindness don’t even know they are colorblind until they fail a colorblindess teat.

Re: Color Blind - Class I medical

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:09 pm
by 747Whale
wildwobby wrote:
No restrictions for daytime flying though.


Light gun signals are used in the daylight, too.

wildwobby wrote:
Colorblind people CAN see colors - it is just harder to make distinctions between CERTAIN shades of colors, most often certain shades of red and green. Most people with colorblindness don’t even know they are colorblind until they fail a colorblindess teat.


Some see colors. Some do not. There are varying degrees of color blindness, ranging from the inability to see color, to certain colors, and seeing the wrong colors, or misinterpreting the colors based on what's seen, or the inability to distinguish between colors.

Re: Color Blind - Class I medical

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:30 pm
by wildwobby
747Whale wrote:
wildwobby wrote:
No restrictions for daytime flying though.


Light gun signals are used in the daylight, too.

wildwobby wrote:
Colorblind people CAN see colors - it is just harder to make distinctions between CERTAIN shades of colors, most often certain shades of red and green. Most people with colorblindness don’t even know they are colorblind until they fail a colorblindess teat.


Some see colors. Some do not. There are varying degrees of color blindness, ranging from the inability to see color, to certain colors, and seeing the wrong colors, or misinterpreting the colors based on what's seen, or the inability to distinguish between colors.



Jfc - learn to read.

Re: Color Blind - Class I medical

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:37 pm
by 747Whale
wildwobby wrote:


Jfc - learn to read.


Thanks, captain obvious. I read just fine, and replied accordingly.

I'm aware of the restriction. I'm also aware that color vision can impact day flying. Aside form medical certificate limitation, as you noted, it can have a direct impact on employability, which includes daylight operations, too, which is why I responded as i did. I'm sure you can read. Learn to comprehend.

Re: Color Blind - Class I medical

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:02 pm
by zeke
nati5860 wrote:
Hello there.
I'm trying to obtain my Class I medical but I've failed the ishihara test.
I've taken the next tests with more AME's:

1.Ishihara
2.AO-HRR
3.DVORINE
4.FARNSWORTH D-15

Failed them too with minor mistakes.
I'm going to have my OCVT + MFT tests next week and I'm please asking you guys for some help if you have any advises for me.
Thanks.


Make sure there is no medication you are taking that has colour deficiency as a side effect such as sildenafil citrate.

If you can pass the operational test, you can hold a class 1 without restrictions and should never need to do another test again.

Re: Color Blind - Class I medical

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:14 am
by 747Whale
zeke wrote:
nati5860 wrote:

If you can pass the operational test, you can hold a class 1 without restrictions and should never need to do another test again.


A color vision test will be part of every flight physical. For a Class 1 holder, that's every 6 months.

Re: Color Blind - Class I medical

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:10 am
by VSMUT
nati5860 wrote:
Is it possible to get Class I restricted for daylight only ?
I mean a commercial restricted.
Because I'm waiting for medical committee results.


Even if you could, why would you? No airline would hire a pilot that is restricted to daylight only. Night or day, it just isn't a consideration in the planning of schedules. Flying at night is completely unavoidably in practically all airlines. We even have time-zones to further complicate things, so when flying eastbound in the European winter, you could barely work 4 hours per day! If you get an ATC delay somewhere, pushing the flight into darkness, the flight would have to be cancelled.


747Whale wrote:
A class 1 medical certificate is required to exercise the privileges of an ATP (airline transport pilot) certificate.

A class II medical certificate is required to exercise the privileges of a commercial pilot certificate.


Careful with such generalizations. This is an international forum. Class 2 only allows commercial flying in the US. Flying commercially on a Class 2 in Europe will land you in prison. It's strictly PPL only.

Re: Color Blind - Class I medical

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:05 pm
by nati5860
VSMUT wrote:
nati5860 wrote:
Is it possible to get Class I restricted for daylight only ?
I mean a commercial restricted.
Because I'm waiting for medical committee results.


Even if you could, why would you? No airline would hire a pilot that is restricted to daylight only. Night or day, it just isn't a consideration in the planning of schedules. Flying at night is completely unavoidably in practically all airlines. We even have time-zones to further complicate things, so when flying eastbound in the European winter, you could barely work 4 hours per day! If you get an ATC delay somewhere, pushing the flight into darkness, the flight would have to be cancelled.


747Whale wrote:
A class 1 medical certificate is required to exercise the privileges of an ATP (airline transport pilot) certificate.

A class II medical certificate is required to exercise the privileges of a commercial pilot certificate.


Careful with such generalizations. This is an international forum. Class 2 only allows commercial flying in the US. Flying commercially on a Class 2 in Europe will land you in prison. It's strictly PPL only.



I’m asking because I have another medical problem. There is going to be a medical committee of 3 AME’s discussing on it next week, but I can’t understand why they requested the color blindness results , if it’s preventing from obtaining a class 1 medical
anyway.
So I want to know if they want to provide me a class 1 medical even with my second medical problem but however restricted to daylight only until I pass a color blind flight test(MFT + OCVT) to get a waiver. LOE - Letter of Evidence.

Re: Color Blind - Class I medical

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:48 pm
by zeke
747Whale wrote:

A color vision test will be part of every flight physical. For a Class 1 holder, that's every 6 months.


That is for a standard medical, people who fail those standard tests can opt to have both the OCVT during the day and the color vision MFT will be given a letter of evidence (LOE) valid for all classes of medical certificates and will have no limitation or comment made on the certificate regarding color vision as they meet the standard for all classes. They don’t need recurring testing with a LOE.

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/he ... wchart.pdf

Re: Color Blind - Class I medical

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:20 pm
by 747Whale
nati5860 wrote:
I’m asking because I have another medical problem. There is going to be a medical committee of 3 AME’s discussing on it next week, but I can’t understand why they requested the color blindness results , if it’s preventing from obtaining a class 1 medical
anyway.
So I want to know if they want to provide me a class 1 medical even with my second medical problem but however restricted to daylight only until I pass a color blind flight test(MFT + OCVT) to get a waiver. LOE - Letter of Evidence.


Let's be clear: you're asking because you're seeking a medical certificate in Israel?

You have an additional problem, and you are under review for that problem, and have failed your color vision tests, including operational?

You're hoping that any of us can tell you what the decision will be by a board of physicians behind closed doors?

Re: Color Blind - Class I medical

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:56 pm
by nati5860
747Whale wrote:
nati5860 wrote:
I’m asking because I have another medical problem. There is going to be a medical committee of 3 AME’s discussing on it next week, but I can’t understand why they requested the color blindness results , if it’s preventing from obtaining a class 1 medical
anyway.
So I want to know if they want to provide me a class 1 medical even with my second medical problem but however restricted to daylight only until I pass a color blind flight test(MFT + OCVT) to get a waiver. LOE - Letter of Evidence.


Let's be clear: you're asking because you're seeking a medical certificate in Israel?

You have an additional problem, and you are under review for that problem, and have failed your color vision tests, including operational?

You're hoping that any of us can tell you what the decision will be by a board of physicians behind closed doors?


Well I was looking to find someone that is experienced, who had the same problem.

Re: Color Blind - Class I medical

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:06 pm
by A380MSN004
Failed The ishiara, did The Farnsworth D-15 (never understood if The results are good enough or not :) And passed The lantern.

In France The lantern is the final Cut. Class 1 approved

Re: Color Blind - Class I medical

Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:22 am
by benjjk
Your local authorities might not accept it, but there is a computerized test which is accepted in Australia and the UK - https://www.aviationvisionservices.com/colour-vision/. Quite a few people who fail the ishihara can pass this test.

Re: Color Blind - Class I medical

Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:58 pm
by VSMUT
nati5860 wrote:
Well I was looking to find someone that is experienced, who had the same problem.


I've never heard of anybody getting through with colour-blindness of any kind, unfortunately. But give it a go. Maybe Israel has some loopholes in its regulations.

But don't despair if you can only get a class 2 or LAPL or whatever you have in Israel. You may still be able to fly gliders and Cessna's, and in my experience, that sort of flying beats RNAV'ing about in a 737 by lightyears.

Re: Color Blind - Class I medical

Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:39 pm
by zeke
VSMUT wrote:
I've never heard of anybody getting through with colour-blindness of any kind, unfortunately.


I am not aware of anyone that is actually fully color blind, almost everyone has anomalous trichromatic (3 colour) vision which can range from almost normal colour perception to almost total absence of perception in either red, green,or blue. But even people at the upper end of that what we would call “normal” only see around 1 million colours. Around 12% of females have tetrachromatic (4 colour) vision can see around 10 million different colours. There is no standard test for those with tetrachromatic vision.

The standard tests are a good screening point, however they may rule people out that can practically see an understand the light gun from the tower, aircraft lights, and airport signs and lights.

Many people pass the practical tests as there is good contrast and well established colours.

Re: Color Blind - Class I medical

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:02 am
by nati5860
Thanks I wish they will decide I can have a Class III with option to upgrade Class I after OCVT + MFT tests passed.

Re: Color Blind - Class I medical

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:06 pm
by longhauler
A380MSN004 wrote:
Failed The ishiara, did The Farnsworth D-15 (never understood if The results are good enough or not :) And passed The lantern.
In France The lantern is the final Cut. Class 1 approved


Same thing in Canada. I went through the same process as you. I passed the Lantern test when I was 17 and never did another colour test since, while maintaining a Class I medical for an ATPL to the present day.

nati5860 wrote:
Thanks I wish they will decide I can have a Class III with option to upgrade Class I after OCVT + MFT tests passed.

I imagine it would very my country, but that is how it is done in Canada. You are issued a Class III medical. Then ... if and when you pass higher standards then you are issued a Class I when Transport Canada receives proper documentation.

Re: Color Blind - Class I medical

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:18 pm
by StTim
I always wanted to be a pilot but found I was red/green (quite severe) early. It is odd. I have no concept of a distinct colour purple. It is just a shade of blue.

Quite frustrating to be limited on career options for this.

Re: Color Blind - Class I medical

Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:30 pm
by nati5860
I will be waiting for the final answer from the medical committee and let you know once I have an update.
Thanks guys. :)

Re: Color Blind - Class I medical

Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:08 am
by nati5860
Thanks everyone for the help.
I have an update.
I've recieved a Statement of Demonstrated Ability (SODA) regards my medical problem.
For 1st class medical.
But I need to pass MFT test - Medical Flight Test.
For the color blind problem.
I need some advises from someone who has already passed the MFT test.
Thanks.

Re: Color Blind - Class I medical

Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:55 pm
by N766UA
787Driver wrote:
You can’t get a class 1 medical if you are colorblind afaik


Of course you can.

I’ve been in your shoes and it’s a daunting place to be. That said, here’s my advice: you really can’t study for a color vision test. You can either practically see colors (as in maybe you can’t pass a test in a book, but you can safely see those colors as they’re used in the real world, like lights), or you can’t. If you can’t, that isn’t a safe position to be in. If you CAN, however, distinguish colors in the real world well enough to pass your MFT, you’ll get a SODA or an LOE and you’re good to go, no further questions asked (well, that’s how it’s supposed to be anyway.) I wish you the best of luck and, for others who may be colorblind to one degree of another... it may be a battle, but YES you can get a class 1 and YES you can go fly jets.

Re: Color Blind - Class I medical

Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:42 pm
by nati5860
N766UA wrote:
787Driver wrote:
You can’t get a class 1 medical if you are colorblind afaik


Of course you can.

I’ve been in your shoes and it’s a daunting place to be. That said, here’s my advice: you really can’t study for a color vision test. You can either practically see colors (as in maybe you can’t pass a test in a book, but you can safely see those colors as they’re used in the real world, like lights), or you can’t. If you can’t, that isn’t a safe position to be in. If you CAN, however, distinguish colors in the real world well enough to pass your MFT, you’ll get a SODA or an LOE and you’re good to go, no further questions asked (well, that’s how it’s supposed to be anyway.) I wish you the best of luck and, for others who may be colorblind to one degree of another... it may be a battle, but YES you can get a class 1 and YES you can go fly jets.


Thanks.