mlb0805
Topic Author
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Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:07 pm

Student Pilot Feeling Overwhelmed

Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:57 pm

Hello. I'm 28, and interested in possibly becoming an airline pilot. I'm currently a tram driver and looking to do something better. I'm on my 8th lesson towards my private, and I'm feeling kind of overwhelmed. I'm not flying nearly as much as I would like, due to the wonderful NJ weather and my job. It's more difficult than I expected. My friends seem to think it's just like driving your car. It's so expensive as well. I get depressed whenever I look at my bank account. I only make 15 an hour at my job as well, and I live in my own. I'm kind of wondering if should continue with this. I really need to fly more also. Thanks for any opinions.
 
Babyshark
Posts: 170
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: Feeling Overwhelmed

Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:06 pm

Try airlinepilotcentral.com and their forums. More gouge there from pilots.
 
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usmcav8tor
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:47 am

Re: Feeling Overwhelmed

Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:13 pm

Take a look at the military. It's a commitment, but if you get an aviation contract they pay for you to learn to fly plus pilots are in demand plus it is a guaranteed paycheck.
 
FlyHossD
Posts: 1903
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:45 pm

Re: Feeling Overwhelmed

Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:25 pm

Also, search for aviation scholarships. My EAA chapter (it's not in NJ, sadly) offers one and it sometimes goes unused. So try AOPA, etc.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
sixtyseven
Posts: 807
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:42 am

Re: Feeling Overwhelmed

Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:26 pm

It’s not like driving a car. Nor is it easy.

You need to be committed. No point sugar coating it. It’s a tough road.

But if you stick with it, it’s rewarding, a great career.

Good luck.
Stand-by for new ATIS message......
 
Varsity1
Posts: 1907
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 4:55 am

Re: Feeling Overwhelmed

Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:35 pm

It's difficult. Don't let anyone convince you otherwise.
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
Bobloblaw
Posts: 2406
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:15 pm

Re: Feeling Overwhelmed

Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:35 pm

Hi

Don’t give up on your passions and dreams. The industry also needs pilots badly. You’re doing the right thing. You’ll look back one day and you’ll be glad you stuck with it. Best wishes
 
uhntissbaby111
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:05 pm

Re: Feeling Overwhelmed

Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:35 pm

As someone above me said, look at military. I did 4 years active duty and now uncle Sam is footing the bill for my flight training. 4 years may seem like a long time but, in the grand scheme of things it is not. You can realistically join when you are 28/29 and you'll be out when you're 33. If you have a college degree, you'll just need the flight training and if you go to an accelerated program it can be knocked out very quick. You could realistically be at the regional's by 35 giving you a 30 year career, you havn't even been alive for that long. Now if you still need a degree, go to a part 141 university after and get the degree/flight training. It would probably take around 3 years of going to school full time, plus an extra year to hit the R-ATP mins of 1000 hours. So with that scenario, you could be at the airlines at around 37/38. Still a 27/28 year career!
 
max999
Posts: 1101
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:05 am

Re: Feeling Overwhelmed

Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:46 pm

Bobloblaw wrote:
Hi

Don’t give up on your passions and dreams. The industry also needs pilots badly. You’re doing the right thing. You’ll look back one day and you’ll be glad you stuck with it. Best wishes


The commercial aviation industry keeps saying there's a pilot labor shortage. Yet, it doesn't seem the airlines are putting their money where their mouth is and they aren't making more effort to get new pilots trained.

The high cost of training seems to be a contributing factor in the labor shortage. I think the airlines together can organize a subsidized training program.
All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
 
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gunsontheroof
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Re: Feeling Overwhelmed

Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:49 pm

Can't offer much in the way of advice on getting everything together as a pilot, but if we're just talking about being overwhelmed in your late 20s, I've been there. You'll be OK. Set realistic goals, be honest and keep your sense of humor intact. The road ahead is long and daunting, but everything you're running into now is probably going to look like an annoying pothole in hindsight.

*Apologies for the graduation speech nobody asked for.
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
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September11
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Re: Feeling Overwhelmed

Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:00 pm

I'll say go for a flight attendant job
Airliners.net of the Future
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 3366
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Feeling Overwhelmed

Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:44 pm

max999 wrote:
Bobloblaw wrote:
Hi

Don’t give up on your passions and dreams. The industry also needs pilots badly. You’re doing the right thing. You’ll look back one day and you’ll be glad you stuck with it. Best wishes


The commercial aviation industry keeps saying there's a pilot labor shortage. Yet, it doesn't seem the airlines are putting their money where their mouth is and they aren't making more effort to get new pilots trained.

The high cost of training seems to be a contributing factor in the labor shortage. I think the airlines together can organize a subsidized training program.


There’s ample avenues in the US to train, gain experience and be qualified for a 121 position—always has been, always will be. Everybody is whining about the ATP (so-called 1500 hour rule) but at no time in 50 years has anything less than 1500 hours been realistic to get a major interview. Stated mins have been less, but actual hiring has been 1,500 to 5,000 hours and an ATP. The lower number exclusively military fighter pilots, the upper end pure civilian pilots.
 
Bobloblaw
Posts: 2406
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:15 pm

Re: Feeling Overwhelmed

Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:11 am

September11 wrote:
I'll say go for a flight attendant job

Pilot is his passion. Not FA. He’ll regret being an FA
 
harleydriver
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 1:09 pm

Re: Feeling Overwhelmed

Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:29 am

I would look at the military and consider the Air National Guard or Reserves. I'm not sure how far you are from McGuire AFB (now currently known as Joint Base McGuire, Dix, Lakehurst) but I did 12 years in the Guard up in my home town of Bangor, Maine and another 17 years in the Guard at McGuire. Get a GI Bill, get your private out of pocket sadly but maybe use your military income to help pay for flight lessons and then the GI Bill will pay up to $10,000 per year for follow on training after your private. I flew out of Flying W airport in Lumberton, NJ for several years. Consider other aviation careers too, as I type I'm sitting at my work desk as a flight dispatcher and retired from the military. It is frustrating and requires dedication. I did my private like you, flew as I could afford it was wasn't nearly as much as I should, usually once or twice a month and rarely more than that if the bank account allowed it. Look at AOPA financial services as an example and if your situation allows it consider a loan and knock out your flying quicker and it will be cheaper in the long run. If you have your degree consider enlisting into an aviation field like an aircraft mechanic, get to know the folks in flight ops and get your pilots license but do it quick, you are pretty close to the age limitation.

I wish you luck. I wanted to pursue a pilot career, my Dad flew for Continental until just before the merger and I wish I had followed in his footsteps but it didn't pan out so I just fly for fun now getting hamburgers that are no longer just $100.00 and flying for charitable causes. The airline career a tough career but rewarding too but not for everyone and it takes a lot to get to that point where you can start submitting airline applications. I wish you the best!
Department of Redundancy Department
 
FlyHappy
Posts: 1036
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 1:06 pm

Re: Feeling Overwhelmed

Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:40 am

Go for it.
Bust your ass.
find an aviation school.
work a job before flight class, deliver pizzas at night, sell concessions at the stadium on weekends, drive Uber in the middle of the night, get a roommate.

you can sleep when you're dead.

its okay to take a few loans, take on some debt.
but ... have a backup plan. maybe you won't make thru school, maybe you'll fail a physical, maybe you'll find yourself with a couple of unexpected mouths to feed.

you'll still need to pay back that debt, so shoot for the stars, but plan for the worst.

I didn't "grow up" til I was about your age. Found something - not a passion - but I'm good at it; I worked hard at it, and I've been amply rewarded. I'm not a pilot, my point is that I always worked hard and had a plan B even when plan A did not work out. Now, I can provide anything for 2 little humans that worship me, and that includes whisking them off to exotic locales on glorious metal tubes, and often.

Come back here in 5 or 10 years and post a big "Hell Ya, I did it!" . Or - even a "I just flew SQ in J and found it lacking...", whatever.

Chin up, youngster. Tell your friends they're clueless.
Its a big, beautiful world out there, and you've got lots of time - but its time to start, right now.
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: Feeling Overwhelmed

Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:41 am

I'll chime in with the others. It is tough at times, and costly. You can do it, but it's not a bed of roses.

I know airline pilots who worked nights driving lorries or worked as cabin crew to pay for flight school. Commitment and focus got them through. Working as cabin crew for a while may seem like a detour but if and when you reach your goal of working for an airline the operational experience and the contacts can come in handy.

I would seriously consider moving somewhere with more decent weather, e.g. Florida or Arizona, conditional on being able to find a job there. In general, flying more frequently will cost you less in the long run because you will progress faster.

Do what you need to do in order to realise your dream. If it doesn't pan out, that's life. But you'll always regret it if you didn't give it a proper go.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
747Whale
Posts: 725
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Re: Feeling Overwhelmed

Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:48 am

Fly is easy; the big secret is that it's a lot easier than the public thinks. When you start out however, it's much like the zen flower. The saying is that when one undertakes study of the flower, it's just a flower, but as study progresses, it becomes more than just a flower. After mastery, it's just a flower again. Flying is the same way, but it will be more than a flower for a long time.

Flying is as easy as driving a car, perhaps more so as there's less to hit in the air. Driving a car on a rush hour freeway is a lot more nerve wracking. Flying is relaxing.

The hardest part of flying is paying for it. The reality is that unless someone can fly at least twice a week, it's hard to maintain any sense of proficiency, let alone make progress. Because of the cost, moving forward with the flight training when you can only fly a little here and there, is very difficult. You need to be able to fly enough to retain what you've learned, so you build on that and learn more. If you're always relearning the same material because you haven't been flying enough, then it can be frustrating.

The best approach, often not realistic for most people, is to set aside enough money to go knock it out. The reality is that many incur debt by taking loans. Starting out in aviation, the wages are low, and carrying a lot of debt can be tough.

There are various ways to cut the costs, and the costs of training can vary considerably from one place to another. I've seen places that train in aircraft that cost 85 an hour, others that are 150. The less expensive aircraft mean more flying and more frequent flying.

Doing glider training means less expense to start.

Once you have a private pilot certificate, you can pick up some hours and experience with outfits like the Civil Air Patrol, where the air force will pay for the flying (or at least the fuel or rental costs) to go do search and rescue, border patrol, fly blood, etc.

With a private pilot certificate, you can "split time" with other up and coming fledgling aviators; one person wears a "hood" that restricts his view to the cockpit instruments, while a "safety pilot" watches for traffic and keeps everyone honest; both can log the time, and it's one way that some reduce the cost of a few hours along the way.

If you can get work at the airport, you. may be able to trade some of the work for flight time. I'll be honest about it: cost is one of the things that weeds out those who are really dedicated about flying, and those who aren't. When I learned, I worked two jobs, even in high school, and cycled hours to the airport to scrub airplanes in an unheated metal hangar in the winter. I worked two jobs and sometimes three for a lot of years, in fact, even once established and working as a pilot. When I was an instructor, I answered phones at one job, worked night security at an industrial site, turned wrenches and pumped fuel and did books for a school, and instructed and towed banners. I lived on top ramen and oxygen, stayed skinny, and got very little sleep. You do what it takes.

Some get into college and use the education loans to do flight training and a flight degree. Again, lots of debt, but for some, that's the way in. Others take out loans, or get someone to cosign, or get credit cards. I've known people who bought a used experimental (homebuilt) airplane and flew that for a few hundred hours.

In the meantime, make the most of your flight training. Some find that playing with flight simulation games helps (microsoft flight simulator, etc), but those can also form bad habits; they're usually best used in conjunction with flight training to reinforce lessons learned.

A wise old aviator many years ago advised me to sit in a chair with a stick in one hand and a tennis ball in the other, close my eyes, and relive the flight training session I'd done. Over and over. Lean, bank, push and pull, and visualize it. It works. It helps. I always encouraged students to go out and sit in the airplane on the ramp and do it. Over and over, as much as they could. Tie the tail down for a tricycle gear airplane or prop it up for conventional gear (tailwheel) to see the landing attitude. Close your eyes, move the controls, feel the throttle and rudder pedals and yoke or stick, and do the whole thing sitting in the cockpit. Over and over. You can't log it, of course, but it helps. It really does.

Get on some pilot boards; there are student pilot sites out there like studentpilot.com and the AOPA website, pilots of america, and perhaps a dozen others that have all levels of participation. Get a subscription to flight training magazine. Join Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association. Get involved with CAP, and join the Experimental Aircraft Association. Get to know people who fly, and you may find opportunities open. I worked with a young man who was working on his ratings and hours. He took a job with us driving a support truck on a fire operation, and soon was flying a small airplane from point to point to do relief work for the company. He picked up a couple hundred hours that way, then went to a banner towing operation. He was resourceful and dedicated. It cost him and he was frustrated from time to time, like most. But he persevered.

The old story about Socrates regarding the man who sought knowledge holds true in aviation. The man approached Socrates and asked for knowledge and learning. Socrates took the man to the sea, and held him under the water until the man fought for his life. When Socrates released the man, he told the would-be student to come back when he wanted knowledge as much as he'd wanted air. Flying's like that, too.
 
Max Q
Posts: 7547
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: Feeling Overwhelmed

Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:50 am

Some good advice here, if this is what you really want just keep at it, persistence is everything in this career


And remember you can’t expect to know everything immediately, take little bites every day, learn your trade methodically and be curious, the most experienced pilots out there are still learning every day
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


Guns and the love of them by a loud minority are a malignant and deadly cancer inflicted on American society
 
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Starlionblue
Posts: 19314
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

Re: Feeling Overwhelmed

Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:51 am

747Whale wrote:
There are various ways to cut the costs, and the costs of training can vary considerably from one place to another. I've seen places that train in aircraft that cost 85 an hour, others that are 150. The less expensive aircraft mean more flying and more frequent flying.

Doing glider training means less expense to start.


Adding to this, whether you learn in a 50-year old 152 with steam gauges or a brand new 172 with glass doesn't make any difference to your proficiency and progress in the long run. What does make a difference is an extra US$50 per hour. Try to find somewhat cheaper options, but do make sure the owner isn't cutting corners on maintenance. It may be worth spending a bit more than bottom dollar to ensure the aircraft you are flying are available and reliable.

Max Q wrote:
And remember you can’t expect to know everything immediately, take little bites every day, learn your trade methodically and be curious, the most experienced pilots out there are still learning every day


"Little bites every day." That sounds like my study method! :D

I don't like cramming so I try to do 30-60 minutes on a regular basis instead. I use downtime on the bus or the train to review flashcards with limitations, chairfly emergency procedures and so on. Hiking or running are also good times for this.

Having a firm grasp of basics like limitations and memory procedures take a surprising amount of pressure off when flying, since at least you don't have to stress about whether you'll remember that stuff.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Woodreau
Posts: 1776
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 6:44 am

Re: Student Pilot Feeling Overwhelmed

Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:42 am

You will need an age waiver to get a commission to be a military pilot as you are probably to old to get the military to train you to fly a military aircraft. I think 29 is the upper limit to apply for military flight training without the age waiver.

However, there is nothing preventing you from enlisting as a non military pilot to earn the GI bill and then use the GI bill after you are out of the military to pay for civilian flight training.

About glider training, if you do not have a private pilot certificate yet, it is not cheaper to earn a private glider certificate. A glider pilot certificate is just as expensive as an airplane pilot certificate. The glider is cheaper to rent than an airplane, but the majority of your costs for your initial glider pilot certificate is incurred in hookup and tow fees because you need to work on landing the glider before you get released for solo. As soon as the tow cable gets hooked on it’s usually $30 for a .1 tow around the pattern for your landing. But once you earn the private glider certificate, it gets cheaper to fly. Plus you can get your commercial glider at 25 hours, and start taking paying passengers on sightseeing glider flights. (Pay is not that great though. You earn more on tips than you get paid by the glider operation.)

It’s not an easy road earning your pilot certificate. Costs were high when I was learning to fly 25 years ago. I havent been in general aviation in over 10 years, so I imagine costs are even higher now.

There is more to aviation than just airline pilot though. Airline flying is just a small portion of aviation. There are many other aviation jobs out there that you might be interested in.
Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
 
chimborazo
Posts: 232
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:51 pm

Re: Student Pilot Feeling Overwhelmed

Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:55 am

As well as all the above I’d recommend getting a Class 1 medical, or whatever the first class equivalent is in the US, to be confident there is nothing hidden there.

Flying a plane isn’t difficult. I’ve only 180 hours of PPL experience to speak from... but it’s not hard to get a PPL. What is hard is the breadth of information to absorb as you move into instrument training and on to ATPL learning.

Like everything in life; If you really want it, you’ll do it. Find your way with the great advice above.
 
CosmicCruiser
Posts: 2321
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:01 am

Re: Student Pilot Feeling Overwhelmed

Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:30 pm

chimborazo wrote:
Like everything in life; If you really want it, you’ll do it. Find your way with the great advice above.


speaking of determination ,there was a young Japanese girl who worked for FDX in Narita who would jumpseat to Anchorage for her flying lesson then jumpseat back. it was so much cheaper in ANC than NRT it was worth the trip.
 
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Starlionblue
Posts: 19314
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

Re: Student Pilot Feeling Overwhelmed

Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:17 pm

CosmicCruiser wrote:
chimborazo wrote:
Like everything in life; If you really want it, you’ll do it. Find your way with the great advice above.


speaking of determination ,there was a young Japanese girl who worked for FDX in Narita who would jumpseat to Anchorage for her flying lesson then jumpseat back. it was so much cheaper in ANC than NRT it was worth the trip.


That's may be most "pilot lifestyle" thing I've ever heard. :D
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Max Q
Posts: 7547
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: Feeling Overwhelmed

Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:19 am

Starlionblue wrote:
747Whale wrote:
There are various ways to cut the costs, and the costs of training can vary considerably from one place to another. I've seen places that train in aircraft that cost 85 an hour, others that are 150. The less expensive aircraft mean more flying and more frequent flying.

Doing glider training means less expense to start.


Adding to this, whether you learn in a 50-year old 152 with steam gauges or a brand new 172 with glass doesn't make any difference to your proficiency and progress in the long run. What does make a difference is an extra US$50 per hour. Try to find somewhat cheaper options, but do make sure the owner isn't cutting corners on maintenance. It may be worth spending a bit more than bottom dollar to ensure the aircraft you are flying are available and reliable.

Max Q wrote:
And remember you can’t expect to know everything immediately, take little bites every day, learn your trade methodically and be curious, the most experienced pilots out there are still learning every day


"Little bites every day." That sounds like my study method! :D

I don't like cramming so I try to do 30-60 minutes on a regular basis instead. I use downtime on the bus or the train to review flashcards with limitations, chairfly emergency procedures and so on. Hiking or running are also good times for this.

Having a firm grasp of basics like limitations and memory procedures take a surprising amount of pressure off when flying, since at least you don't have to stress about whether you'll remember that stuff.




Couldn’t agree more, best wishes
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


Guns and the love of them by a loud minority are a malignant and deadly cancer inflicted on American society
 
Max Q
Posts: 7547
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: Student Pilot Feeling Overwhelmed

Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:21 am

CosmicCruiser wrote:
chimborazo wrote:
Like everything in life; If you really want it, you’ll do it. Find your way with the great advice above.


speaking of determination ,there was a young Japanese girl who worked for FDX in Narita who would jumpseat to Anchorage for her flying lesson then jumpseat back. it was so much cheaper in ANC than NRT it was worth the trip.



That is impressive, with that kind of dedication she should go far
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


Guns and the love of them by a loud minority are a malignant and deadly cancer inflicted on American society
 
reggiet
Posts: 91
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 5:04 am

Re: Feeling Overwhelmed

Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:41 pm

747Whale wrote:
Fly is easy; the big secret is that it's a lot easier than the public thinks. When you start out however, it's much like the zen flower. The saying is that when one undertakes study of the flower, it's just a flower, but as study progresses, it becomes more than just a flower. After mastery, it's just a flower again. Flying is the same way, but it will be more than a flower for a long time.

Flying is as easy as driving a car, perhaps more so as there's less to hit in the air. Driving a car on a rush hour freeway is a lot more nerve wracking. Flying is relaxing.

The hardest part of flying is paying for it. The reality is that unless someone can fly at least twice a week, it's hard to maintain any sense of proficiency, let alone make progress. Because of the cost, moving forward with the flight training when you can only fly a little here and there, is very difficult. You need to be able to fly enough to retain what you've learned, so you build on that and learn more. If you're always relearning the same material because you haven't been flying enough, then it can be frustrating.

The best approach, often not realistic for most people, is to set aside enough money to go knock it out. The reality is that many incur debt by taking loans. Starting out in aviation, the wages are low, and carrying a lot of debt can be tough.

There are various ways to cut the costs, and the costs of training can vary considerably from one place to another. I've seen places that train in aircraft that cost 85 an hour, others that are 150. The less expensive aircraft mean more flying and more frequent flying.

Doing glider training means less expense to start.

Once you have a private pilot certificate, you can pick up some hours and experience with outfits like the Civil Air Patrol, where the air force will pay for the flying (or at least the fuel or rental costs) to go do search and rescue, border patrol, fly blood, etc.

With a private pilot certificate, you can "split time" with other up and coming fledgling aviators; one person wears a "hood" that restricts his view to the cockpit instruments, while a "safety pilot" watches for traffic and keeps everyone honest; both can log the time, and it's one way that some reduce the cost of a few hours along the way.

If you can get work at the airport, you. may be able to trade some of the work for flight time. I'll be honest about it: cost is one of the things that weeds out those who are really dedicated about flying, and those who aren't. When I learned, I worked two jobs, even in high school, and cycled hours to the airport to scrub airplanes in an unheated metal hangar in the winter. I worked two jobs and sometimes three for a lot of years, in fact, even once established and working as a pilot. When I was an instructor, I answered phones at one job, worked night security at an industrial site, turned wrenches and pumped fuel and did books for a school, and instructed and towed banners. I lived on top ramen and oxygen, stayed skinny, and got very little sleep. You do what it takes.

Some get into college and use the education loans to do flight training and a flight degree. Again, lots of debt, but for some, that's the way in. Others take out loans, or get someone to cosign, or get credit cards. I've known people who bought a used experimental (homebuilt) airplane and flew that for a few hundred hours.

In the meantime, make the most of your flight training. Some find that playing with flight simulation games helps (microsoft flight simulator, etc), but those can also form bad habits; they're usually best used in conjunction with flight training to reinforce lessons learned.

A wise old aviator many years ago advised me to sit in a chair with a stick in one hand and a tennis ball in the other, close my eyes, and relive the flight training session I'd done. Over and over. Lean, bank, push and pull, and visualize it. It works. It helps. I always encouraged students to go out and sit in the airplane on the ramp and do it. Over and over, as much as they could. Tie the tail down for a tricycle gear airplane or prop it up for conventional gear (tailwheel) to see the landing attitude. Close your eyes, move the controls, feel the throttle and rudder pedals and yoke or stick, and do the whole thing sitting in the cockpit. Over and over. You can't log it, of course, but it helps. It really does.

Get on some pilot boards; there are student pilot sites out there like studentpilot.com and the AOPA website, pilots of america, and perhaps a dozen others that have all levels of participation. Get a subscription to flight training magazine. Join Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association. Get involved with CAP, and join the Experimental Aircraft Association. Get to know people who fly, and you may find opportunities open. I worked with a young man who was working on his ratings and hours. He took a job with us driving a support truck on a fire operation, and soon was flying a small airplane from point to point to do relief work for the company. He picked up a couple hundred hours that way, then went to a banner towing operation. He was resourceful and dedicated. It cost him and he was frustrated from time to time, like most. But he persevered.

The old story about Socrates regarding the man who sought knowledge holds true in aviation. The man approached Socrates and asked for knowledge and learning. Socrates took the man to the sea, and held him under the water until the man fought for his life. When Socrates released the man, he told the would-be student to come back when he wanted knowledge as much as he'd wanted air. Flying's like that, too.


You're amazing bro. A definite wise soul with lifetime gems of experience. As always, thanks for your sage feedback.

RT
Reggie in Austin
 
Varsity1
Posts: 1907
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 4:55 am

Re: Feeling Overwhelmed

Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:50 pm

747Whale wrote:
Fly is easy; the big secret is that it's a lot easier than the public thinks. When you start out however, it's much like the zen flower. The saying is that when one undertakes study of the flower, it's just a flower, but as study progresses, it becomes more than just a flower. After mastery, it's just a flower again. Flying is the same way, but it will be more than a flower for a long time.

Flying is as easy as driving a car, perhaps more so as there's less to hit in the air. Driving a car on a rush hour freeway is a lot more nerve wracking. Flying is relaxing.

The hardest part of flying is paying for it. The reality is that unless someone can fly at least twice a week, it's hard to maintain any sense of proficiency, let alone make progress. Because of the cost, moving forward with the flight training when you can only fly a little here and there, is very difficult. You need to be able to fly enough to retain what you've learned, so you build on that and learn more. If you're always relearning the same material because you haven't been flying enough, then it can be frustrating.

The best approach, often not realistic for most people, is to set aside enough money to go knock it out. The reality is that many incur debt by taking loans. Starting out in aviation, the wages are low, and carrying a lot of debt can be tough.

There are various ways to cut the costs, and the costs of training can vary considerably from one place to another. I've seen places that train in aircraft that cost 85 an hour, others that are 150. The less expensive aircraft mean more flying and more frequent flying.

Doing glider training means less expense to start.

Once you have a private pilot certificate, you can pick up some hours and experience with outfits like the Civil Air Patrol, where the air force will pay for the flying (or at least the fuel or rental costs) to go do search and rescue, border patrol, fly blood, etc.

With a private pilot certificate, you can "split time" with other up and coming fledgling aviators; one person wears a "hood" that restricts his view to the cockpit instruments, while a "safety pilot" watches for traffic and keeps everyone honest; both can log the time, and it's one way that some reduce the cost of a few hours along the way.

If you can get work at the airport, you. may be able to trade some of the work for flight time. I'll be honest about it: cost is one of the things that weeds out those who are really dedicated about flying, and those who aren't. When I learned, I worked two jobs, even in high school, and cycled hours to the airport to scrub airplanes in an unheated metal hangar in the winter. I worked two jobs and sometimes three for a lot of years, in fact, even once established and working as a pilot. When I was an instructor, I answered phones at one job, worked night security at an industrial site, turned wrenches and pumped fuel and did books for a school, and instructed and towed banners. I lived on top ramen and oxygen, stayed skinny, and got very little sleep. You do what it takes.

Some get into college and use the education loans to do flight training and a flight degree. Again, lots of debt, but for some, that's the way in. Others take out loans, or get someone to cosign, or get credit cards. I've known people who bought a used experimental (homebuilt) airplane and flew that for a few hundred hours.

In the meantime, make the most of your flight training. Some find that playing with flight simulation games helps (microsoft flight simulator, etc), but those can also form bad habits; they're usually best used in conjunction with flight training to reinforce lessons learned.

A wise old aviator many years ago advised me to sit in a chair with a stick in one hand and a tennis ball in the other, close my eyes, and relive the flight training session I'd done. Over and over. Lean, bank, push and pull, and visualize it. It works. It helps. I always encouraged students to go out and sit in the airplane on the ramp and do it. Over and over, as much as they could. Tie the tail down for a tricycle gear airplane or prop it up for conventional gear (tailwheel) to see the landing attitude. Close your eyes, move the controls, feel the throttle and rudder pedals and yoke or stick, and do the whole thing sitting in the cockpit. Over and over. You can't log it, of course, but it helps. It really does.

Get on some pilot boards; there are student pilot sites out there like studentpilot.com and the AOPA website, pilots of america, and perhaps a dozen others that have all levels of participation. Get a subscription to flight training magazine. Join Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association. Get involved with CAP, and join the Experimental Aircraft Association. Get to know people who fly, and you may find opportunities open. I worked with a young man who was working on his ratings and hours. He took a job with us driving a support truck on a fire operation, and soon was flying a small airplane from point to point to do relief work for the company. He picked up a couple hundred hours that way, then went to a banner towing operation. He was resourceful and dedicated. It cost him and he was frustrated from time to time, like most. But he persevered.

The old story about Socrates regarding the man who sought knowledge holds true in aviation. The man approached Socrates and asked for knowledge and learning. Socrates took the man to the sea, and held him under the water until the man fought for his life. When Socrates released the man, he told the would-be student to come back when he wanted knowledge as much as he'd wanted air. Flying's like that, too.


I have been flying jets for years and I still don't find it 'easy'. I don't know anyone at this level who finds it easy. Driving my car is relaxing. Flying a STAR into LGA is not.
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
747Whale
Posts: 725
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:41 pm

Re: Student Pilot Feeling Overwhelmed

Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:23 pm

Flying an arrival is dirt simple.

Bumper to bumper traffic, not.

I don't know anyone that finds flying difficult. If they did, I wouldn't fly with them.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 3366
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Feeling Overwhelmed

Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:11 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
747Whale wrote:
Fly is easy; the big secret is that it's a lot easier than the public thinks. When you start out however, it's much like the zen flower. The saying is that when one undertakes study of the flower, it's just a flower, but as study progresses, it becomes more than just a flower. After mastery, it's just a flower again. Flying is the same way, but it will be more than a flower for a long time.

Flying is as easy as driving a car, perhaps more so as there's less to hit in the air. Driving a car on a rush hour freeway is a lot more nerve wracking. Flying is relaxing.

The hardest part of flying is paying for it. The reality is that unless someone can fly at least twice a week, it's hard to maintain any sense of proficiency, let alone make progress. Because of the cost, moving forward with the flight training when you can only fly a little here and there, is very difficult. You need to be able to fly enough to retain what you've learned, so you build on that and learn more. If you're always relearning the same material because you haven't been flying enough, then it can be frustrating.

The best approach, often not realistic for most people, is to set aside enough money to go knock it out. The reality is that many incur debt by taking loans. Starting out in aviation, the wages are low, and carrying a lot of debt can be tough.

There are various ways to cut the costs, and the costs of training can vary considerably from one place to another. I've seen places that train in aircraft that cost 85 an hour, others that are 150. The less expensive aircraft mean more flying and more frequent flying.

Doing glider training means less expense to start.

Once you have a private pilot certificate, you can pick up some hours and experience with outfits like the Civil Air Patrol, where the air force will pay for the flying (or at least the fuel or rental costs) to go do search and rescue, border patrol, fly blood, etc.

With a private pilot certificate, you can "split time" with other up and coming fledgling aviators; one person wears a "hood" that restricts his view to the cockpit instruments, while a "safety pilot" watches for traffic and keeps everyone honest; both can log the time, and it's one way that some reduce the cost of a few hours along the way.

If you can get work at the airport, you. may be able to trade some of the work for flight time. I'll be honest about it: cost is one of the things that weeds out those who are really dedicated about flying, and those who aren't. When I learned, I worked two jobs, even in high school, and cycled hours to the airport to scrub airplanes in an unheated metal hangar in the winter. I worked two jobs and sometimes three for a lot of years, in fact, even once established and working as a pilot. When I was an instructor, I answered phones at one job, worked night security at an industrial site, turned wrenches and pumped fuel and did books for a school, and instructed and towed banners. I lived on top ramen and oxygen, stayed skinny, and got very little sleep. You do what it takes.

Some get into college and use the education loans to do flight training and a flight degree. Again, lots of debt, but for some, that's the way in. Others take out loans, or get someone to cosign, or get credit cards. I've known people who bought a used experimental (homebuilt) airplane and flew that for a few hundred hours.

In the meantime, make the most of your flight training. Some find that playing with flight simulation games helps (microsoft flight simulator, etc), but those can also form bad habits; they're usually best used in conjunction with flight training to reinforce lessons learned.

A wise old aviator many years ago advised me to sit in a chair with a stick in one hand and a tennis ball in the other, close my eyes, and relive the flight training session I'd done. Over and over. Lean, bank, push and pull, and visualize it. It works. It helps. I always encouraged students to go out and sit in the airplane on the ramp and do it. Over and over, as much as they could. Tie the tail down for a tricycle gear airplane or prop it up for conventional gear (tailwheel) to see the landing attitude. Close your eyes, move the controls, feel the throttle and rudder pedals and yoke or stick, and do the whole thing sitting in the cockpit. Over and over. You can't log it, of course, but it helps. It really does.

Get on some pilot boards; there are student pilot sites out there like studentpilot.com and the AOPA website, pilots of america, and perhaps a dozen others that have all levels of participation. Get a subscription to flight training magazine. Join Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association. Get involved with CAP, and join the Experimental Aircraft Association. Get to know people who fly, and you may find opportunities open. I worked with a young man who was working on his ratings and hours. He took a job with us driving a support truck on a fire operation, and soon was flying a small airplane from point to point to do relief work for the company. He picked up a couple hundred hours that way, then went to a banner towing operation. He was resourceful and dedicated. It cost him and he was frustrated from time to time, like most. But he persevered.

The old story about Socrates regarding the man who sought knowledge holds true in aviation. The man approached Socrates and asked for knowledge and learning. Socrates took the man to the sea, and held him under the water until the man fought for his life. When Socrates released the man, he told the would-be student to come back when he wanted knowledge as much as he'd wanted air. Flying's like that, too.


I have been flying jets for years and I still don't find it 'easy'. I don't know anyone at this level who finds it easy. Driving my car is relaxing. Flying a STAR into LGA is not.


Really? Flying is hard to learn and easy to do. If LGA is a challenge try Moscow or Le Bourget.

GF
 
spacecadet
Posts: 3413
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2001 3:36 am

Re: Student Pilot Feeling Overwhelmed

Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:05 am

I'm just starting out with my training so I'm not sure how helpful you'll find my thoughts but hopefully they'll be of some use.

I'm doing an immersive program, and I do think that's probably the best way to do it. Take out a loan if you have to - it'll be more than worth it in the end. People are too afraid of doing that, but make yourself a spreadsheet and map out your potential career including costs and potential earnings. Obviously anything can happen so you can't expect that everything's going to go exactly to plan, but it helps to *have* a plan to begin with. And if you do that, you'll see that the faster you try to make it to an airline, the more money you're going to make over time due to both seniority (everything in this industry is based on seniority) and just having a couple of extra years worth of paychecks. It easily pays for the interest on a loan and then some. It's a good investment.

This was the conclusion I came to myself but it has been reiterated by 100% of the 30 or 40 airline pilots I've met since starting the program I'm in. Not one of them said it's a good idea to buy lessons piecemeal; they all, without exception, said it's better to spend the money all at once and "knock it out" as someone said above. There are programs out there that will help you with financial aid, and even without much of an income, a lot of lenders are more than willing to lend you the money because they know that it's a guaranteed return provided you're successful in the program. It's not like you're never going to be able to pay them back once you're a commercial pilot. It may be difficult the first few years, but some lenders even let you just pay the interest over that time.

I think that most of your problems will disappear if you do both of these things - take out a loan, and get in an immersive program. (I'm not going to recommend anything specific, but if you Google, you will find programs that combine both of these things together.) You'll be flying more and building skills faster, you won't worry about your bank account so much, and you'll have milestones you're working towards and goals to accomplish.

Take a look at some of the airline-sponsored ab initio programs that are finally popping up in the US too. This is how most of the rest of the world already trains its pilots; now there are several of these programs in the US.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
Flyer732
Posts: 1364
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 6:09 am

Re: Student Pilot Feeling Overwhelmed

Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:49 am

Try the aviation career mentorship group on Facebook, there are a lot of students - retired airline and everything in between. Loads of flight instructors willing and able to help as well.
 
Varsity1
Posts: 1907
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 4:55 am

Re: Feeling Overwhelmed

Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:54 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
747Whale wrote:
Fly is easy; the big secret is that it's a lot easier than the public thinks. When you start out however, it's much like the zen flower. The saying is that when one undertakes study of the flower, it's just a flower, but as study progresses, it becomes more than just a flower. After mastery, it's just a flower again. Flying is the same way, but it will be more than a flower for a long time.

Flying is as easy as driving a car, perhaps more so as there's less to hit in the air. Driving a car on a rush hour freeway is a lot more nerve wracking. Flying is relaxing.

The hardest part of flying is paying for it. The reality is that unless someone can fly at least twice a week, it's hard to maintain any sense of proficiency, let alone make progress. Because of the cost, moving forward with the flight training when you can only fly a little here and there, is very difficult. You need to be able to fly enough to retain what you've learned, so you build on that and learn more. If you're always relearning the same material because you haven't been flying enough, then it can be frustrating.

The best approach, often not realistic for most people, is to set aside enough money to go knock it out. The reality is that many incur debt by taking loans. Starting out in aviation, the wages are low, and carrying a lot of debt can be tough.

There are various ways to cut the costs, and the costs of training can vary considerably from one place to another. I've seen places that train in aircraft that cost 85 an hour, others that are 150. The less expensive aircraft mean more flying and more frequent flying.

Doing glider training means less expense to start.

Once you have a private pilot certificate, you can pick up some hours and experience with outfits like the Civil Air Patrol, where the air force will pay for the flying (or at least the fuel or rental costs) to go do search and rescue, border patrol, fly blood, etc.

With a private pilot certificate, you can "split time" with other up and coming fledgling aviators; one person wears a "hood" that restricts his view to the cockpit instruments, while a "safety pilot" watches for traffic and keeps everyone honest; both can log the time, and it's one way that some reduce the cost of a few hours along the way.

If you can get work at the airport, you. may be able to trade some of the work for flight time. I'll be honest about it: cost is one of the things that weeds out those who are really dedicated about flying, and those who aren't. When I learned, I worked two jobs, even in high school, and cycled hours to the airport to scrub airplanes in an unheated metal hangar in the winter. I worked two jobs and sometimes three for a lot of years, in fact, even once established and working as a pilot. When I was an instructor, I answered phones at one job, worked night security at an industrial site, turned wrenches and pumped fuel and did books for a school, and instructed and towed banners. I lived on top ramen and oxygen, stayed skinny, and got very little sleep. You do what it takes.

Some get into college and use the education loans to do flight training and a flight degree. Again, lots of debt, but for some, that's the way in. Others take out loans, or get someone to cosign, or get credit cards. I've known people who bought a used experimental (homebuilt) airplane and flew that for a few hundred hours.

In the meantime, make the most of your flight training. Some find that playing with flight simulation games helps (microsoft flight simulator, etc), but those can also form bad habits; they're usually best used in conjunction with flight training to reinforce lessons learned.

A wise old aviator many years ago advised me to sit in a chair with a stick in one hand and a tennis ball in the other, close my eyes, and relive the flight training session I'd done. Over and over. Lean, bank, push and pull, and visualize it. It works. It helps. I always encouraged students to go out and sit in the airplane on the ramp and do it. Over and over, as much as they could. Tie the tail down for a tricycle gear airplane or prop it up for conventional gear (tailwheel) to see the landing attitude. Close your eyes, move the controls, feel the throttle and rudder pedals and yoke or stick, and do the whole thing sitting in the cockpit. Over and over. You can't log it, of course, but it helps. It really does.

Get on some pilot boards; there are student pilot sites out there like studentpilot.com and the AOPA website, pilots of america, and perhaps a dozen others that have all levels of participation. Get a subscription to flight training magazine. Join Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association. Get involved with CAP, and join the Experimental Aircraft Association. Get to know people who fly, and you may find opportunities open. I worked with a young man who was working on his ratings and hours. He took a job with us driving a support truck on a fire operation, and soon was flying a small airplane from point to point to do relief work for the company. He picked up a couple hundred hours that way, then went to a banner towing operation. He was resourceful and dedicated. It cost him and he was frustrated from time to time, like most. But he persevered.

The old story about Socrates regarding the man who sought knowledge holds true in aviation. The man approached Socrates and asked for knowledge and learning. Socrates took the man to the sea, and held him under the water until the man fought for his life. When Socrates released the man, he told the would-be student to come back when he wanted knowledge as much as he'd wanted air. Flying's like that, too.


I have been flying jets for years and I still don't find it 'easy'. I don't know anyone at this level who finds it easy. Driving my car is relaxing. Flying a STAR into LGA is not.


Really? Flying is hard to learn and easy to do. If LGA is a challenge try Moscow or Le Bourget.

GF


lol what.

Neither of those places come remotely close to the busy nature/mess of LGA. People pushing into your ramp, contact approaches, pissed ZNY controllers, it's stressful. More so with bad weather or weak crew members.
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
747Whale
Posts: 725
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:41 pm

Re: Student Pilot Feeling Overwhelmed

Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:36 am

Wow. Sounds very scary. Are yo sure you'll be okay?
 
chimborazo
Posts: 232
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:51 pm

Re: Student Pilot Feeling Overwhelmed

Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:23 am

Aviation is - or at least should be - very calm and considered. I can’t comment on a busy STAR arrival but it is an orderly process with ATC giving you directions and organising it.

Driving on the road no one is in control, there are idiots everywhere, the majority don’t have the situational awareness that pilots have and everyone wants to get there first.

I’ve had to do one emergency landing in a PA-28 and even that was not stressful (at 65 hours total time). I’d been taught what to do... I just went through the items, informed ground station I had a problem and was immediately returning and went through the drills.

At no point did I find it difficult. Flying to a busy aerodrome with 8 people joining (and one joining the circuit the wrong way) overhead requires focus and concentration but it’s still not hard.
 
N757ST
Posts: 703
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 6:00 am

Re: Feeling Overwhelmed

Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:51 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:

I have been flying jets for years and I still don't find it 'easy'. I don't know anyone at this level who finds it easy. Driving my car is relaxing. Flying a STAR into LGA is not.


Really? Flying is hard to learn and easy to do. If LGA is a challenge try Moscow or Le Bourget.

GF


lol what.

Neither of those places come remotely close to the busy nature/mess of LGA. People pushing into your ramp, contact approaches, pissed ZNY controllers, it's stressful. More so with bad weather or weak crew members.



Maybe his aircraft doesn't have an Autopilot managed VNAV function, otherwise agreed there's really nothing to the arrivals into LGA, especially with the advent of RNP approaches to 31. The Korry3 and PHLBO arrival on the airbus are as easy as a one button push, and occasionally some speed brakes when FIFY the gee wiz french airplane shows you she made yet another mistake. As for ZNY and NY approach controllers... man half the fun is listening to them. Maybe I just have thicker skin for that stuff having been based in NYC for 13 years.
 
N757ST
Posts: 703
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 6:00 am

Re: Student Pilot Feeling Overwhelmed

Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:52 pm

Sorry, not RNP, that'd be 13L at KJFK. the "RNAV Visual 31".

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