WPvsMW
Topic Author
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Crash pad incidence, major vs. regional pilots

Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:09 pm

In a jumpseat thread, I wrote,"...the labor pool for regional pilots would be a fraction of the current pool if regional pilots had to live within driving distance from a city served by the regional.", which triggered the following question:

Is the incidence of crash pads higher among regional pilots higher than among pilots for the majors? My anecdotal data: every regional pilot I know has a "share" of a crash pad, but none of the pilots for the majors that I know currently have a "share" of a crash pad.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 3353
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Crash pad incidence, major vs. regional pilots

Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:56 pm

I’m not sure you could find real statistical data; there’s plenty of major/legacy pilots with crash pads. NYC area is full of them.


GF
 
Woodreau
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Re: Crash pad incidence, major vs. regional pilots

Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:22 pm

Lots of major airline pilots have crashpads.

Just my idea of being a 50-year-old pilot, sharing a room of bunkbeds with 5 other 30-, 40-. 50- year old pilots, just not my cup of tea.
Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Crash pad incidence, major vs. regional pilots

Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:35 pm

Or, worse, 60+ year old divorced guys!

GF
 
CosmicCruiser
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Re: Crash pad incidence, major vs. regional pilots

Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:07 am

I don't know the figures on "shared" but where I was there were many commuters who had a crash pad. I think most were shared with the idea that several will be flying at any given time leaving the pad uncrowded or the renter would have only as many pilots as bedrooms. You would use it only a day or two at a time as you came and went from your domicile. In the early 80s I was at Airborne Express and had a small apt. in Wilmington because they made it very difficult to get home.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Crash pad incidence, major vs. regional pilots

Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:53 am

The major complaint I hear about crashpads.... who takes out the garbage. Cleaner usually comes once a week, so kitchen and bathrooms are done... but taking out the garbage is "1x daily" and often isn't done by the "depositors".
Last edited by WPvsMW on Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
747Whale
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Re: Crash pad incidence, major vs. regional pilots

Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:54 am

LAX and Long Beach used to have trailer camps full of airline pilots with campers on trucks in the parking lot.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Crash pad incidence, major vs. regional pilots

Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:57 am

That's a new one for me... with your quarter ownership of a C172 comes a eighth ownership in a camper off Sepulveda Blvd. :lol:
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: Crash pad incidence, major vs. regional pilots

Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:04 am

With any seniority at a major, as a line holder, the number of nights you spend in base are likely to be very small. Often cheaper to just buy a hotel room for the night than pay for a crashpad. Even regional commuters, once you hold a line, a crashpad isn't always needed.
From my cold, dead hands
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Crash pad incidence, major vs. regional pilots

Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:16 am

That consistent with my understanding ... that the incidence of crashpad "shares" among regional pilots is higher than among pilots at the majors. A corollary is that most captains (esp. if single) at a regional would be tempted by an offer of FO at a major. If the regional captain holds a line... tendency would be to stay with the regional unless rostering as an FO preserved the family scene.

Oh wait.... 45+ y/o, at a major, and divorced... could there be a correlation? ;)
 
747Whale
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Re: Crash pad incidence, major vs. regional pilots

Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:44 am

The age-old excuse: AIDS. Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome. The excuse by pilots who blame their personal problems on their career.

Denial and repression aren't healthy, but perhaps that's a compass that points more closely at the heart of the failed marriage than the career.

It's easier to blame the career than to point fingers at one's self, though.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Crash pad incidence, major vs. regional pilots

Wed Feb 27, 2019 4:13 am

I hear you. Crosswind landings are hard... making a marriage work is equivalent, only it's 7/24/365. Too bad there isn't a marriage simulator where spouses go for recurrent.
 
dfwjim1
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Re: Crash pad incidence, major vs. regional pilots

Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:01 pm

Just curious if pilots at all different levels use Airbnb when they need a place to stay?
 
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tb727
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Re: Crash pad incidence, major vs. regional pilots

Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:19 pm

dfwjim1 wrote:
Just curious if pilots at all different levels use Airbnb when they need a place to stay?


I haven't heard of that but it could be possible. Most guys at my base use the cheap hotels right by the airport. Right around $42ish a night seems to be the going rate. The hotels have an airport shuttle and free continental breakfast and seem to be very helpful to flight crew members.

Me though, I'll never do it. Have always been lucky to live in base, I honestly don't think I would be a commuter type of guy. My wife agrees, we would move to the base if we had to.
Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
 
Max Q
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Re: Crash pad incidence, major vs. regional pilots

Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:27 am

I spent a few years commuting to reserve, this is the worst possible situation you can have at a major airline


Living in a crash pad with 8-9 other pilots in the same situation was godawful


As soon as I got a line I moved out and stayed in hotels ever since when needed


What I don’t understand is pilots that continue staying in crash pads when they don’t need to, like it’s a grown up ‘summer camp’


I think they may be happier there than at home..
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


Guns and the love of them by a loud minority are a malignant and deadly cancer inflicted on American society
 
johns624
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Re: Crash pad incidence, major vs. regional pilots

Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:55 am

My spare bedroom is my brother's crash pad when he's on reserve.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Crash pad incidence, major vs. regional pilots

Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:24 am

Commuting and crash pads kept me from ever going back to airlines after EAL crashed in ‘89. I never drove more than 40 minutes for 28 years afterwards.

GF
 
Max Q
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Re: Crash pad incidence, major vs. regional pilots

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:21 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Commuting and crash pads kept me from ever going back to airlines after EAL crashed in ‘89. I never drove more than 40 minutes for 28 years afterwards.

GF



That’s a good policy, my circumstances did not allow me to not commute in those days though, it was the only way I could get out of the engineer’s seat and into an FO position while still being able to support my family


It was the right move but commuting sucks
no matter what
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


Guns and the love of them by a loud minority are a malignant and deadly cancer inflicted on American society
 
747Whale
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Re: Crash pad incidence, major vs. regional pilots

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:56 am

Let the company buy the tickets.

There's a lot to be said for home basing.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Crash pad incidence, major vs. regional pilots

Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:23 am

Will the company buy J, or only Y?
 
Woodreau
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Re: Crash pad incidence, major vs. regional pilots

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:46 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
In a jumpseat thread, I wrote,"...the labor pool for regional pilots would be a fraction of the current pool if regional pilots had to live within driving distance from a city served by the regional.", which triggered the following question:

Is the incidence of crash pads higher among regional pilots higher than among pilots for the majors? My anecdotal data: every regional pilot I know has a "share" of a crash pad, but none of the pilots for the majors that I know currently have a "share" of a crash pad.


The anecdotal data is probably related to the difference in work rules between a regional airline and a major airline and the pay differences.

When I had to get a crashpad to commute after upgrading to captain, It was about $250/month or just an hour of pay. So it's just a matter of bidding to get an extra hour of credit to cover the cost of the crashpad.
At the regional airline level however, $250 is a significant amount of money for a first-year regional FO. Although regional FOs now are probably making more than second-year regional FOs due to signing bonuses, etc. The actual pay rate for a regional FO remains mostly unchanged - $250 is about 5-6 hours pay or more if they're still on first year pay.

So I probably wouldn't want to do a crashpad at my advanced age, if I had to commute again, and needed a crashpad, I'd probably just rent my own apartment for $600-$1000/month , and maybe share it with another commuter. -just because I can afford it, whereas regional airline pilots especially regional FOs couldn't afford another apartment lease, and probably still have student flight school loans that consume a significant amount of their monthly pay.


At major airlines, there usually is some mitigation with long call reserve - allowing pilots to commute in with 12 or 14 hours notice depending on the contract. There are a few regional airlines that may have long call reserve, but mostly reserve at regional airlines tend to consist of short call reserve - usually around 2 hour call-out or airport ready reserve. So a pilot who doesn't live at their base at a major airline can probably bid long call, and not have to get any accommodation to be on reserve unless they get converted to short-call.

The individual circumstances depend on the relative seniority of the pilot - as seniority increases, the need for a crashpad lessens. When I commuted to Chicago as a regional airline FO, I was able to hold trips that were commutable on both ends, so all I needed to do was ensure I had two flights that got me to Chicago the day the trip started, and then after I finished my trip in Chicago, I was able to fly out the same day. Pilots junior wouldn't be able to hold commuter-friendly trips. It also helped that the airline I flew for acknowledged the need for commuting and built trips to allow for commuting, There are regional airlines that don't care and they don't build commutable trips for consideration. The trips start early and finish late, so those pilots need to find a place to stay before and after their trip.

Although I didn't need to obtain a crashpad, the regional airline (and the parent major airline) still charged a service fee to non-rev travel because I didn't have 5 years longevity - I still had to pay $20 to fly from home to Chicago, and $20 to fly from Chicago back home if I was in a cabin seat and not the cockpit jumpseat. So whenever I could, I would try to jumpseat (and ride whereever cabin or cockpit) on another airline before trying to non-rev on my regional airline/major airline partner flights. Once I had 5 years longevity, the airline no-longer charged for non-rev travel.

So lots of factors go into the need for a crashpad or not.

The thing that pilots deal with that's difficult is with mortgage companies.... Mortgage companies just don't understand and have a hard time wrapping their heads around pilots commuting... "So you work in Chicago, but want to buy a house in Texas? Why do you want to do that? Why don't you just buy a home in Illinois? So you're telling me your lodging and travel expenses in Chicago is just $120 a year? plus $500/year in airfare?" Or "So you just work part time? You pay statement only shows 75 hours a month? If you're full time you should be getting paid at least 160 hours a month..." "We'll need a letter for your HR to prove that you can afford this mortgage... (watching my blood pressure spike.)
Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
 
WPvsMW
Topic Author
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Re: Crash pad incidence, major vs. regional pilots

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:45 pm

Woodreau, thanks for the detail, which is more informed than that of my regional pilot friends. They are still on the learning curve, and haven't had their first home mortgage interview yet.

One ex-regional pilot I know, currently happily employed as a DOD civilian, left flying because "airport ready reserve" was frequent but the block time was infrequent. The promised additional a/c never materialized, and he's now a 9-to-5er rather than taking an FO offer from a regional known for non-commutable trips. So, his AF stint helped two ways: avoided flight school loans, and gave him veteran's preference.

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