DominikPirek
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A330/350 type rating

Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:28 pm

Good evening,

if this topic had been discussed here before I do apologize, but I was wondering whether companies using a330 (ceo, neo) and a350 - Lufthansa, Emirates...- will be using common type rating for both of them and therefore rotate crews on both types just like on a330/340 types.

Thank you for answer, Dominik
Last edited by SQ22 on Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Typo fixed
 
johns624
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Re: A3330/350 type rating

Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:41 pm

Delta has them separate. I don't know if it's because of separate type ratings or just for pay scales but they are separate groups of pilots.
 
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zeke
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Re: A3330/350 type rating

Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:19 pm

DominikPirek wrote:
Good evening,

if this topic had been discussed here before I do apologize, but I was wondering whether companies using a330 (ceo, neo) and a350 - Lufthansa, Emirates...- will be using common type rating for both of them and therefore rotate crews on both types just like on a330/340 types.

Thank you for answer, Dominik


At CX we do, I can and have flown the A330-300, A350-900, and A350-1000 on the same day.

The A330/A350 is only a common type rating under EASA, under FAA rules the A330/A350, 777/787 are not common types.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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AirKevin
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Re: A3330/350 type rating

Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:08 am

zeke wrote:
At CX we do, I can and have flown the A330-300, A350-900, and A350-1000 on the same day.

Now you have me curious, how short are these flights that you can actually do that. I would have thought the A350s would be used on longer flights unless they're still being used for crew familiarization.
Captain Kevin
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: A3330/350 type rating

Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:29 am

AirKevin wrote:
zeke wrote:
At CX we do, I can and have flown the A330-300, A350-900, and A350-1000 on the same day.

Now you have me curious, how short are these flights that you can actually do that. I would have thought the A350s would be used on longer flights unless they're still being used for crew familiarization.


CX, CI and others use the A350 on plenty of shorter sectors, e.g. HKG-TPE or HKG-MNL. A pilot could do HKG-TPE-HKG-MNL in one day flying 351, 359 and 330.

The timing of long haul ops means there are large gaps between the long haul peaks, leaving space for regional sectors. In HKG you get this big flock of long haul aircraft landing from Europe in the early morning, and another large flock departing for Europe around midnight. Unless you use the planes for regional work, many would sit idle for 15+ hours. In the same vein, SQ uses the A380 on SIN-HKG-SIN between long haul duties.

HKG-TPE is only about 90 minutes but it is wall to wall widebodies during the day.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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zeke
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Re: A3330/350 type rating

Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:33 am

AirKevin wrote:
Now you have me curious, how short are these flights that you can actually do that. I would have thought the A350s would be used on longer flights unless they're still being used for crew familiarization.


All of our passenger aircraft are used regionally between long haul flying, the A350s would average around 15 hrs in the air every day.

If I recall that day correctly it was BKK-HKG 35K (about 2:20), HKG-TPE 359 (around 1:15), another crew took that aircraft then to Japan and I got on an 333 to do TPE-HKG (around 1:40).

Less than 6 hrs of flying, at work probably around 11 hrs, can be a 2-3 hr wait between sectors.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
workhorse
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Re: A3330/350 type rating

Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:39 am

zeke wrote:

At CX we do, I can and have flown the A330-300, A350-900, and A350-1000 on the same day.

The A330/A350 is only a common type rating under EASA, under FAA rules the A330/A350, 777/787 are not common types.


What about the A320 family? Would it be possible for you to fly an A321, an A330 and an A350 on the same day (if your airline had all of them)? And the A380?
 
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TOGA10
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Re: A3330/350 type rating

Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:49 pm

workhorse wrote:
zeke wrote:

At CX we do, I can and have flown the A330-300, A350-900, and A350-1000 on the same day.

The A330/A350 is only a common type rating under EASA, under FAA rules the A330/A350, 777/787 are not common types.


What about the A320 family? Would it be possible for you to fly an A321, an A330 and an A350 on the same day (if your airline had all of them)? And the A380?

I think in EASA-land, you can only hold 2 typeratings at the same time. So, in theory, you could fly the A318-321 (a320 family is 1 typerating), A330 and A350 (common typerating) all in one day. If it's wise, not so sure. I think it would be a bit too easy to mix up certain procedures etc.
Love flying, hate the alarm at 3 in the morning, love watching the sun rise at 5:30. It's all about compromises.
 
workhorse
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Re: A3330/350 type rating

Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:21 pm

TOGA10 wrote:
I think in EASA-land, you can only hold 2 typeratings at the same time. So, in theory, you could fly the A318-321 (a320 family is 1 typerating), A330 and A350 (common typerating) all in one day. If it's wise, not so sure. I think it would be a bit too easy to mix up certain procedures etc.


I think (but not so sure, hence the question) that Swiss pilots used to fly both the A320 and the A330/A340 family (thus effectively covering the whole fleet of their airline).
 
thepinkmachine
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Re: A330/350 type rating

Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:23 pm

You can hold as many as you please, as long as you do the OPC on each type. Now, AFAIK, EASA OPS rules only allow you to operate 2 types at the same time.
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zeke
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Re: A3330/350 type rating

Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:20 pm

workhorse wrote:

What about the A320 family? Would it be possible for you to fly an A321, an A330 and an A350 on the same day (if your airline had all of them)? And the A380?


It is possible, and pilots who work for airbus do fly multiple types. Every type rating needs to remain current, which means regular simulator checks on each type which becomes uneconomical both in terms of time and money for an airline. It would work for a smaller outfit that’s does ad hoc charters, as the pilots normally are not running into maximum hours or days at work and people pay a premium for the aircraft to be available.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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glen
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Re: A3330/350 type rating

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:15 am

workhorse wrote:

I think (but not so sure, hence the question) that Swiss pilots used to fly both the A320 and the A330/A340 family (thus effectively covering the whole fleet of their airline).


It was either A320 and A330 for some pilots or A330 and A340 for the others, but never all three types.
"The horizon of many people is a circle with zero radius which they call their point of view." - Albert Einstein
 
workhorse
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Re: A3330/350 type rating

Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:23 am

glen wrote:
It was either A320 and A330 for some pilots or A330 and A340 for the others, but never all three types.


Aren't the A330 and the A340 the same type rating?
Last edited by workhorse on Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
workhorse
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Re: A3330/350 type rating

Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:33 am

zeke wrote:
It is possible, and pilots who work for airbus do fly multiple types. Every type rating needs to remain current, which means regular simulator checks on each type which becomes uneconomical both in terms of time and money for an airline. It would work for a smaller outfit that’s does ad hoc charters, as the pilots normally are not running into maximum hours or days at work and people pay a premium for the aircraft to be available.


I guess it depends on what kind of routes they fly, too. If it is an airline that regularly flies 330s on short haul (and thus has flights where a 330 is likely to be substituted to a 321 on short notice due to demand or vice versa) then it makes more sense.
 
flyinTLow
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Re: A3330/350 type rating

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:09 am

zeke wrote:
workhorse wrote:

What about the A320 family? Would it be possible for you to fly an A321, an A330 and an A350 on the same day (if your airline had all of them)? And the A380?


It is possible, and pilots who work for airbus do fly multiple types. Every type rating needs to remain current, which means regular simulator checks on each type which becomes uneconomical both in terms of time and money for an airline. It would work for a smaller outfit that’s does ad hoc charters, as the pilots normally are not running into maximum hours or days at work and people pay a premium for the aircraft to be available.

You can hold as many as you want, but EASA limits it to 2 and also requires you to perform a minimum number of landings on each type to actually transport passengers with that rating.

workhorse wrote:
glen wrote:
It was either A320 and A330 for some pilots or A330 and A340 for the others, but never all three types.


Aren't the A330 and the A340 the same type rating?


They are not. They share big commonalities, but their systems differ a lot due to the number of engines. And ETOPS is also a seperate issue that has to be addressed
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Starlionblue
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Re: A3330/350 type rating

Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:07 am

flyinTLow wrote:
zeke wrote:
workhorse wrote:

What about the A320 family? Would it be possible for you to fly an A321, an A330 and an A350 on the same day (if your airline had all of them)? And the A380?


It is possible, and pilots who work for airbus do fly multiple types. Every type rating needs to remain current, which means regular simulator checks on each type which becomes uneconomical both in terms of time and money for an airline. It would work for a smaller outfit that’s does ad hoc charters, as the pilots normally are not running into maximum hours or days at work and people pay a premium for the aircraft to be available.

You can hold as many as you want, but EASA limits it to 2 and also requires you to perform a minimum number of landings on each type to actually transport passengers with that rating.

workhorse wrote:
glen wrote:
It was either A320 and A330 for some pilots or A330 and A340 for the others, but never all three types.


Aren't the A330 and the A340 the same type rating?


They are not. They share big commonalities, but their systems differ a lot due to the number of engines. And ETOPS is also a seperate issue that has to be addressed


A330 and A340 can be held on the same type rating in many jurisdictions. Their systems differ but compared to A330 vs A350, they're practically identical. The A330 and A340 were developed as a single program.

I don't understand the point about ETOPS. Why would it be an issue between A330 and A340?
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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zeke
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Re: A3330/350 type rating

Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:11 am

flyinTLow wrote:
You can hold as many as you want, but EASA limits it to 2 and also requires you to perform a minimum number of landings on each type to actually transport passengers with that rating.


This is actually incorrect when it comes to the FBW Airbus types. The rule says you can only fly two types unless credits related to the training, checking, and recent experience requirements are defined. The FBW family has what is known as operational suitability data established by EASA to permit common type ratings, cross crew qualification, and mixed fleet flying.

The operational suitability data defines the recent experience requirements.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
flyinTLow
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Re: A3330/350 type rating

Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:19 pm

Starlionblue wrote:
flyinTLow wrote:
zeke wrote:

It is possible, and pilots who work for airbus do fly multiple types. Every type rating needs to remain current, which means regular simulator checks on each type which becomes uneconomical both in terms of time and money for an airline. It would work for a smaller outfit that’s does ad hoc charters, as the pilots normally are not running into maximum hours or days at work and people pay a premium for the aircraft to be available.

You can hold as many as you want, but EASA limits it to 2 and also requires you to perform a minimum number of landings on each type to actually transport passengers with that rating.

workhorse wrote:

Aren't the A330 and the A340 the same type rating?


They are not. They share big commonalities, but their systems differ a lot due to the number of engines. And ETOPS is also a seperate issue that has to be addressed


A330 and A340 can be held on the same type rating in many jurisdictions. Their systems differ but compared to A330 vs A350, they're practically identical. The A330 and A340 were developed as a single program.

I don't understand the point about ETOPS. Why would it be an issue between A330 and A340?


Well let me say it like this: I have a EASA license and it says A330/350 and then A340-200/-300/-500/-600.

A340 does not require ETOPS. If anything it requires EROPS.
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