Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
intrepidflyer wrote:Do the wheels lock on a particular heading?
intrepidflyer wrote:If the pilot were to sneeze and judder the controls during landing or takeoff roll could the plane veer off at high speed?
flipdewaf wrote:When I was learning to fly in the trauma hawk it was always deliberate to keep a bit away from the center line as the shaking caused by lights etc could cause pieces of trim to be released from the cockpit. the steering with your feet could take a bit of getting used to and my instructor could always tell if I had rushed from home to arrive for my lesson as my "clutch foot" was always a bit heavier than the other.
Talking about going straight down the centre line of the runway always reminds me of a particular apocryphal tale:
It is a very windy day with huge and gusting crosswinds and there is a 747 (isn't it always in these tales) coming in to land. The pilots manage a almost perfect landing worthy of praise even in good conditions. The controller comes over the radio and says "good job on landing in these conditions but you did land just to the left of the center line", "I know" says the captain "and the first officer landed just to the right".
Fred
Max Q wrote:flipdewaf wrote:When I was learning to fly in the trauma hawk it was always deliberate to keep a bit away from the center line as the shaking caused by lights etc could cause pieces of trim to be released from the cockpit. the steering with your feet could take a bit of getting used to and my instructor could always tell if I had rushed from home to arrive for my lesson as my "clutch foot" was always a bit heavier than the other.
Talking about going straight down the centre line of the runway always reminds me of a particular apocryphal tale:
It is a very windy day with huge and gusting crosswinds and there is a 747 (isn't it always in these tales) coming in to land. The pilots manage a almost perfect landing worthy of praise even in good conditions. The controller comes over the radio and says "good job on landing in these conditions but you did land just to the left of the center line", "I know" says the captain "and the first officer landed just to the right".
Fred
I have over 1000 hours instructing in the PA 38 !
Haven’t heard that moniker in a while
Best wishes
akoma wrote:Max Q wrote:flipdewaf wrote:When I was learning to fly in the trauma hawk it was always deliberate to keep a bit away from the center line as the shaking caused by lights etc could cause pieces of trim to be released from the cockpit. the steering with your feet could take a bit of getting used to and my instructor could always tell if I had rushed from home to arrive for my lesson as my "clutch foot" was always a bit heavier than the other.
Talking about going straight down the centre line of the runway always reminds me of a particular apocryphal tale:
It is a very windy day with huge and gusting crosswinds and there is a 747 (isn't it always in these tales) coming in to land. The pilots manage a almost perfect landing worthy of praise even in good conditions. The controller comes over the radio and says "good job on landing in these conditions but you did land just to the left of the center line", "I know" says the captain "and the first officer landed just to the right".
Fred
I have over 1000 hours instructing in the PA 38 !
Haven’t heard that moniker in a while
Best wishes
Loved the PA 38, in spite of what others feel. Started my flying in the PA 38, many years ago.
Just like learning other stuff, it was really difficult trying to keep to the centre line during the first couple of hours on a plane; after a few hours, it sort of becomes automatic and we don't even think about it anymore
spacecadet wrote:It's all manual using rudder. And you certainly *can* feel it sometimes, even in an airliner. It depends on the winds and the pilot. I have felt like the plane was going to turn over on some takeoffs and landings.
fr8mech wrote:spacecadet wrote:It's all manual using rudder. And you certainly *can* feel it sometimes, even in an airliner. It depends on the winds and the pilot. I have felt like the plane was going to turn over on some takeoffs and landings.
No, it is not all manual using rudder. Airliners have nose wheel steering that can be controlled by 1)A tiller (full authority) 2)Rudder pedal steering (limited authority).
fr8mech wrote:spacecadet wrote:No, it is not all manual using rudder. Airliners have nose wheel steering that can be controlled by 1)A tiller (full authority) 2)Rudder pedal steering (limited authority).It's all manual using rudder. And you certainly *can* feel it sometimes, even in an airliner. It depends on the winds and the pilot. I have felt like the plane was going to turn over on some takeoffs and landings.
AirKevin wrote:Yes, but you aren't going to be steering with the tiller during the take-off roll or the landing roll, which is what the original question was asking.
spacecadet wrote:It's all manual using rudder
CosmicCruiser wrote:we never used the tiller once lined up.
intrepidflyer wrote:When driving my car on the motorway at roughly 70mph I can feel how small steering movements or corrections have big impacts.
How do planes manage to take off and land so "straight"? You certainly don't feel like plane veering left and right trying to stay on the runway.
Do the wheels lock on a particular heading?
If the pilot were to sneeze and judder the controls during landing or takeoff roll could the plane veer off at high speed?
Just curious!
N1120A wrote:intrepidflyer wrote:When driving my car on the motorway at roughly 70mph I can feel how small steering movements or corrections have big impacts.
How do planes manage to take off and land so "straight"? You certainly don't feel like plane veering left and right trying to stay on the runway.
Do the wheels lock on a particular heading?
If the pilot were to sneeze and judder the controls during landing or takeoff roll could the plane veer off at high speed?
Just curious!
Sneezing isn't going to do anything, unless it was a really violent, alien sneeze.
Flying is also all about small corrections. That is particularly true in smaller airplanes, but also true in larger ones. You don't feel those small corrections because the weight and stability of large aircraft buffers that. That said, I've certainly had my share of flights on airlines where I could feel fairly sizeable corrections being made on final and especially on roll out.
Starlionblue wrote:The closer you get to the ground, the smaller the margins, and consequently the more decisively you have to correct.
N1120A wrote:Starlionblue wrote:The closer you get to the ground, the smaller the margins, and consequently the more decisively you have to correct.
Decisively, but also smoothly and with greater precision, which means you want to make much more subtle corrections.
Starlionblue wrote:N1120A wrote:Starlionblue wrote:The closer you get to the ground, the smaller the margins, and consequently the more decisively you have to correct.
Decisively, but also smoothly and with greater precision, which means you want to make much more subtle corrections.
That really depends on how far you've strayed from the ideal trajectory.
intrepidflyer wrote:But on the ground for nose wheel control it's a steering wheel... Or pedals?
Starlionblue wrote:intrepidflyer wrote:But on the ground for nose wheel control it's a steering wheel... Or pedals?
It's both. However, while taking off or landing you'd only use the pedals. The tiller ("steering handwheel" to be exact) has too much authority for very little movement of your hand to use at any significant speed. You'd use it only at taxi speeds.
As an example, the A330 tiller can deflect the nosewheels up to 72 degrees in either direction, and you don't have to move your hand very much to go to the stops. You can make the nose move almost sideways. The pedals only give you up to 6 degrees in either direction, but you have to move your feet significantly to get to the stops.*
* On the A330 the system gradually decreases tiller and pedal authority at high speeds, and I'm guessing this is true of many modern designs, but the point stands.
Max Q wrote:It’s a good aircraft, much preferable to the tiny, cramped Cessna 152 series
Not stable at all but that made it a good trainer, if you can fly it you can fly anything
Moose135 wrote:Max Q wrote:It’s a good aircraft, much preferable to the tiny, cramped Cessna 152 series
Not stable at all but that made it a good trainer, if you can fly it you can fly anything
I earned my PPL in the Tomahawk while in college. It was a fun little airplane to fly.
One thing I was taught back in those days, that carried on to the bigger and faster aircraft I flew was to look down towards the end of the runway and aim for that, it made for fewer and smaller corrections to stay on centerline, rather than making a slalom course out of the runway trying to keep it straight.
intrepidflyer wrote:But on the ground for nose wheel control it's a steering wheel... Or pedals?
N1120A wrote:intrepidflyer wrote:But on the ground for nose wheel control it's a steering wheel... Or pedals?
On what? On larger jets, think GIV and up, it is nose wheel for more subtle movements and a tiller for larger turns. On a Grumman Tiger, Cirrus or Diamond, it is a castering nose wheel with differential braking.
intrepidflyer wrote:N1120A wrote:intrepidflyer wrote:But on the ground for nose wheel control it's a steering wheel... Or pedals?
On what? On larger jets, think GIV and up, it is nose wheel for more subtle movements and a tiller for larger turns. On a Grumman Tiger, Cirrus or Diamond, it is a castering nose wheel with differential braking.
Thanks for the replies. My question was regarding commercial airliners/jets and using the tiller for taxiing up to the runway lineup and rudder from there makes perfect sense in how "sensitive" you want your steering corrections to be!
N1120A wrote:intrepidflyer wrote:N1120A wrote:
On what? On larger jets, think GIV and up, it is nose wheel for more subtle movements and a tiller for larger turns. On a Grumman Tiger, Cirrus or Diamond, it is a castering nose wheel with differential braking.
Thanks for the replies. My question was regarding commercial airliners/jets and using the tiller for taxiing up to the runway lineup and rudder from there makes perfect sense in how "sensitive" you want your steering corrections to be!
They aren't using the rudder, at least not till it becomes effective. Larger jets have nosewheel steering, just not to the extent needed for taxi. They use nosewheel steering to stay lined up on centerline on the runway, during takeoff and landing, particularly when the rudder isn't effective enough to do so.