J343
Topic Author
Posts: 213
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:40 am

Closing and Opening of Aircraft Doors

Sat May 11, 2019 5:15 am

This may seem like a really dumb question but why do Flight Attendants pr gate agents draw an imaginary square around the aircraft door when they close it?

https://youtu.be/QXu1Yv2m52A

https://youtu.be/zo9Khzchy7A
 
Scinfaxi
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:28 pm

Re: Closing and Opening of Aircraft Doors

Sat May 11, 2019 5:22 am

The first guy looks like he's just confirming with himself that the door is closed flush and that no seals are sticking out etc. Visual confirmation like that is done on the hold doors too at my outfit.
 
Wingtips56
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Re: Closing and Opening of Aircraft Doors

Sat May 11, 2019 5:36 am

Well, I never closed a door from the inside, and I never as a passenger saw a flight attendant do the outline thing either. As an agent, I closed a lot of doors from the outside (HP Jetstream, Cessna 402, Piper Navajo, 707, 737, DC-9-80, 757, BAe-146), but not the kind of door in the videos. I have to say that the video looks staged, and I wonder if it is just for show, or if procedures have changed since the last time I closed a door.(1996 or so.)
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 178 airports, 89 airlines, 71 a/c types, 397 routes, 56 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,101,154 passenger miles.

Home airport : CEC
 
unimproved
Posts: 83
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Re: Closing and Opening of Aircraft Doors

Sat May 11, 2019 7:20 am

It builds routine to confirm the door is correctly closed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_and_calling
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: Closing and Opening of Aircraft Doors

Sat May 11, 2019 8:07 am

unimproved wrote:
It builds routine to confirm the door is correctly closed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_and_calling


Bingo. Many cockpit flows can be done in a similarly way. Count and point at the same things every time. After a while you’ll know if something is off.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
nws2002
Posts: 831
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Re: Closing and Opening of Aircraft Doors

Sat May 11, 2019 8:09 pm

I've never done exactly that as a gate agent, but our process is to run our hand from aft to forward across the handle. This confirms the door is flush on both sides and the handle is flush with the door.
 
Moosefire
Posts: 88
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Re: Closing and Opening of Aircraft Doors

Sun May 12, 2019 4:09 am

Honestly just looks like unnecessary theatrics, though maybe it’s a corporate policy or cultural norm for that airline. The gate agent kind and just looks like he’s performing for the camera.
MD-11F/C-17A Pilot
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: Closing and Opening of Aircraft Doors

Sun May 12, 2019 7:13 am

Moosefire wrote:
Honestly just looks like unnecessary theatrics, though maybe it’s a corporate policy or cultural norm for that airline. The gate agent kind and just looks like he’s performing for the camera.


It's all fun and games until the day someone misses something. ;)

That being said, it looks like part of an online instructional package.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: Closing and Opening of Aircraft Doors

Mon May 13, 2019 2:27 pm

Many airlines have the seal check as a procedure to confirm that there is nothing stuck in the door seal and that the door is correctly sealed. It’s one of those things that helps the whole routine.
59 types. 41 countries. 24 airlines.
 
SAAFNAV
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Re: Closing and Opening of Aircraft Doors

Mon May 13, 2019 3:32 pm

I can't speak for this video, but in my country the training for flight attendants is absolutely based on the lowest common denominator, i.e. IQ of 30.

You have to recite the stuff word for word, with no thinking allowed.
When we do the fire drill, you have to actually make a 'pssst' noise when you test the fire extinguisher before you use it, otherwise the examiner will deem you as having failed, due to not testing it.

So I can also imagine some other people having to go through the drill of pointing everything out.

However, in a properly implemented 'pointing and calling' system as linked above, safety and awareness increases a lot.
L-382 Loadmaster; ex C-130B Navigator
 
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fr8mech
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Re: Closing and Opening of Aircraft Doors

Mon May 13, 2019 6:30 pm

You know, people do this all the time. Do you pat your wallet or feel for your phone, even though you know it’s there? You’re performing a version of “pointing and calling”. When I finish with the stove, I pass my hand over the controls, even though I can visually verify that the controls are all in the off position.

Those of us that work with checklists do it all the time. Do I really think the guarded RAT switch has somehow become un-safetied? No I don’t, but I reach up and physically check the guard, along with the visual check, when I “unlock light off”.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
Unless it's expressly prohibited, it's allowed.
You are not entitled to a public safe space.
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AirKevin
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Re: Closing and Opening of Aircraft Doors

Mon May 13, 2019 7:39 pm

fr8mech wrote:
You know, people do this all the time. Do you pat your wallet or feel for your phone, even though you know it’s there?

I wouldn't necessarily say that I know for sure it's there, I just check to make sure it's actually there. I had an incident at school years ago where I got back to my dorm room and checked my pockets to make sure that everything that was in my pockets was still there. Everything was in there....except my phone. I checked my room, couldn't find it anywhere. Asked somebody else to call my phone, thinking if I couldn't find it, at least I could hear it if it was in my room. He did....but then told me he hung up when he heard some girl answer the phone instead. That wasn't entirely helpful because it was pretty obvious at that point that I not only lost my phone, but somebody else found it. So I immediately grabbed his phone and called my phone again. Sure enough, a girl answered it and told me that somebody else had lost the phone, to which I promptly told her "Yeah, that was me. I asked somebody else to call it, and he hung up when you answered it." I called quick enough that she was only a block away from my dorm, so I took off running....with the other bloke's phone....to find this girl and get my phone back. Yes, I gave the other bloke his phone back after I got back to the dorm.
Captain Kevin
 
unimproved
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Re: Closing and Opening of Aircraft Doors

Mon May 13, 2019 9:35 pm

These videos both seem to be recorded in Asia, where it is a lot more common. Even bus drivers point at the green light and call out "All clear, crossing the intersection".
 
strfyr51
Posts: 3673
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: Closing and Opening of Aircraft Doors

Mon May 13, 2019 10:02 pm

Wingtips56 wrote:
Well, I never closed a door from the inside, and I never as a passenger saw a flight attendant do the outline thing either. As an agent, I closed a lot of doors from the outside (HP Jetstream, Cessna 402, Piper Navajo, 707, 737, DC-9-80, 757, BAe-146), but not the kind of door in the videos. I have to say that the video looks staged, and I wonder if it is just for show, or if procedures have changed since the last time I closed a door.(1996 or so.)

That's the Airbus procedure for the A321 as the slide pack is not part of the door That's not the case for their older airplanes nor for the Boeing airplanes.
 
Lrockeagle
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 1:40 am

Re: Closing and Opening of Aircraft Doors

Tue May 14, 2019 2:54 am

J343 wrote:
This may seem like a really dumb question but why do Flight Attendants pr gate agents draw an imaginary square around the aircraft door when they close it?

https://youtu.be/QXu1Yv2m52A

https://youtu.be/zo9Khzchy7A

On our King Air I check the handle, four green, and call “light out” and hope for the “light out” response from the left seat
Lrockeagle
14 years ago

I got $20 says AA takes their 787's with GE powerplants. Just a hunch. Any takers?

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