tealnz
Topic Author
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789 Western Europe to Southeast Asia

Sun May 12, 2019 6:55 pm

We are now seeing the Boeing 787-9 operating on some extremely long routes – including several in the 7000nm+ category (eg AKL-ORD, SFO-SIN) and the extreme case of PER-LHR (7800nm great circle). So why is the 789 not being used more on routes from Western Europe to Southeast Asia? From a quick look the longest sectors I can see are London to Hong Kong (5200nm great circle) and to Phuket (5300nm). Is it just that airlines prefer to use larger aircraft like the 77W to these destinations? Or is there something about the technical demands of routes out of Southeast Asia (Tibetan Plateau overflight?) that particularly challenges the 789?
 
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AirKevin
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Re: 789 Western Europe to Southeast Asia

Sun May 12, 2019 7:03 pm

I mean, if a route justifies using a 777-300ER, I don't know why you'd stick a 787-9 on it given that it's smaller than the 777-300ER.
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thepinkmachine
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Re: 789 Western Europe to Southeast Asia

Sun May 12, 2019 7:05 pm

Definitely not a technical thing. I guess there’s just not many 787s in Europe. Mainline carriers are BA, AF and LO.

DY and VS have them too, but they generally fly transatlantic routes.

LO does WAW-SIN, WAW-NRT and occasionally WAW-DPS on the 788.

Norwegian did LGW-SIN, but I guess they dropped it
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unimproved
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Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:14 pm

Re: 789 Western Europe to Southeast Asia

Sun May 12, 2019 7:14 pm

It's also doing AMS-KIX/NRT/SFO, along with some routes ex-NRT/HND from ANA and JAL. And other than JAL I try to avoid them due to the cramped 9 abreast config.

Europe to Asia has a lot of competition from the ME3 which means an extra frequency with a smaller jet isn't going to give you many more pax. So most airlines choose to send a single 77W/A380/747 departing in the afternoon after most EU connections have arrived.
 
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Re: 789 Western Europe to Southeast Asia

Sun May 12, 2019 7:17 pm

thepinkmachine wrote:
Definitely not a technical thing. I guess there’s just not many 787s in Europe. Mainline carriers are BA, AF and LO.

DY and VS have them too, but they generally fly transatlantic routes.

LO does WAW-SIN, WAW-NRT and occasionally WAW-DPS on the 788.

Norwegian did LGW-SIN, but I guess they dropped it


Also UX, KL and BY/OR/TB.
 
ARNPEK
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:26 pm

Re: 789 Western Europe to Southeast Asia

Mon May 13, 2019 11:17 am

TK starts IST-DPS (6400mi) sometime soon. That qualifies as a proper longhaul 789 flight. Id also say that it is more about that there aren't that many 787 operators in Europe and Asia.
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: 789 Western Europe to Southeast Asia

Wed May 15, 2019 5:41 am

I think the answer is demand rather than capability. Traditionally the flights were nearly certain to be 744s, but airlines then went for the A380 or 77W when they retired/sold them on. The A350 is more likely to tap-into this particular market as it's closer in capacity to the aircraft used, and a lot of A350 operators are based either in SE Asia or Europe (VN, PR, SQ, MH, TG, LH, AY all use the A350 on SE Asia to W. Europe routes at present, and that's ignoring Western/Northern Asian airlines like CX, CI, the Chinese 3, Asiana). In Europe the 787's edge on shorter routes may be why it's mostly been deployed on other sectors by the airlines, as time goes on we may well see 787s making themselves known on more SE Asia to W. Europe routes. The A350 is very capable on the longest routes and offers a slightly more 'right-sized' aircraft for 77W replacement.

BA's LHR-KUL is the longest W. Europe to SE Asia flight I can think of on the 789, but you also have VN's SGN/HAN-LHR/CDG routes.

I'm no expert, but I think we can safely write-off any concerns that it's technical.
 
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MoKa777
Posts: 937
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:47 am

Re: 789 Western Europe to Southeast Asia

Wed May 15, 2019 10:29 am

MrHMSH wrote:
I think the answer is demand rather than capability. Traditionally the flights were nearly certain to be 744s, but airlines then went for the A380 or 77W when they retired/sold them on. The A350 is more likely to tap-into this particular market as it's closer in capacity to the aircraft used, and a lot of A350 operators are based either in SE Asia or Europe (VN, PR, SQ, MH, TG, LH, AY all use the A350 on SE Asia to W. Europe routes at present, and that's ignoring Western/Northern Asian airlines like CX, CI, the Chinese 3, Asiana). In Europe the 787's edge on shorter routes may be why it's mostly been deployed on other sectors by the airlines, as time goes on we may well see 787s making themselves known on more SE Asia to W. Europe routes. The A350 is very capable on the longest routes and offers a slightly more 'right-sized' aircraft for 77W replacement.

BA's LHR-KUL is the longest W. Europe to SE Asia flight I can think of on the 789, but you also have VN's SGN/HAN-LHR/CDG routes.

I'm no expert, but I think we can safely write-off any concerns that it's technical.

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