kfinger
Topic Author
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:03 pm

SFO Weather Delays

Fri May 31, 2019 2:27 am

SFO is well known for its delays. So why isn't there a better contingency plan in place to accommodate flights during weather issues?
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 3700
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: SFO Weather Delays

Fri May 31, 2019 3:13 am

The contingency plan should be a new airport, or expanding the current one into the bay. The delays are caused by limits to runway acceptance rates due to close parallels.

GF
 
Georgetown
Posts: 420
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:50 pm

Re: SFO Weather Delays

Fri May 31, 2019 4:42 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
The contingency plan should be a new airport, or expanding the current one into the bay. The delays are caused by limits to runway acceptance rates due to close parallels.

GF


Yup. Extending into the bay would obviously be the easiest, but there is zero political appetite to do so, which is beyond frustrating. It’s generally the shorter routes that get affected the most, and generally they can be flown from OAK or SJC, but that’s far from a solution. As a United flyer, it’s a killer.
Let's go Hoyas!
 
IAHFLYR
Posts: 4088
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:56 am

Re: SFO Weather Delays

Fri May 31, 2019 1:52 pm

GalaxyFlyer hit it right on the money.

Not being involved anymore since retirement with FAA reducing some separation criteria as it applies to closely spaced parallel operations I may be way off base, but using the RNAV (RNP) Y 28R approach when lower weather is involved does help. IF they use that approach in that fashion the required separation standards would have to be reduced further in some manner to increase the arrival rate above what is currently set at during low weather conditions.

Some would say well just put all the RNP capable aircraft/crews on 28R and allow the non-participants to use the ILS 28L. Well speaking from the ATC side it's not the simple to segregate arrivals like that during an inbound push. Oh sure it can be done, but the workload is huge compared to normal ops of which airplane goes to which runway.

In short, back to what GalaxyFlyer wrote as the main issues.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
ucdtim17
Posts: 564
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:38 pm

Re: SFO Weather Delays

Fri May 31, 2019 4:40 pm

Georgetown wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
The contingency plan should be a new airport, or expanding the current one into the bay. The delays are caused by limits to runway acceptance rates due to close parallels.

GF


Yup. Extending into the bay would obviously be the easiest, but there is zero political appetite to do so, which is beyond frustrating. It’s generally the shorter routes that get affected the most, and generally they can be flown from OAK or SJC, but that’s far from a solution. As a United flyer, it’s a killer.


Easier than that would be just capping traffic at SFO and forcing more flights to operate at OAK/SJC. There's no entity that can/will do that though, so airlines keep adding flights at SFO as long as they have gate space. Visitors want to fly to "San Francisco" regardless of whether their final destination may be accessed just as easily from one of the other airports. Then you have a feedback loop of so much service being offered at SFO, OAK/SJC just can't compete even for people who would prefer to fly there all else equal.
 
kfinger
Topic Author
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:03 pm

Re: SFO Weather Delays

Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:35 am

Concentrating flights at the hub so heavily means that something has to give when weather cuts SFO runway capacity in half. The regional flights to MFR, ACV, RDD, FAT, SBP, etc. are the first ones cut because less people have to be rebooked. But people there have the fewest flight options, as opposed to hubs like SEA, DEN, PHX which also have frequent service to SJC and OAK. The unawareness of second tier metro airports like OAK, BUR, and HOU that are just as close to the CBD is a question I pose here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1423663
 
IAHFLYR
Posts: 4088
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:56 am

Re: SFO Weather Delays

Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:01 am

kfinger wrote:
Concentrating flights at the hub so heavily means that something has to give when weather cuts SFO runway capacity in half. The regional flights to MFR, ACV, RDD, FAT, SBP, etc. are the first ones cut because less people have to be rebooked. But people there have the fewest flight options, as opposed to hubs like SEA, DEN, PHX which also have frequent service to SJC and OAK. The unawareness of second tier metro airports like OAK, BUR, and HOU that are just as close to the CBD is a question I pose here: https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtop ... &t=1423663


The second tier airports are often driven by the location to not only where O/D folks live and want to go. If I live north of Houston why fly into HOU over IAH or if I have business in FTW why fly into DAL, I get your point, but I do believe many have awareness of those OAK, BUR, HOU spots yet they just don't offer all the connections of the larger HUB spots so we take out delays and live with them.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.

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