hitower3
Topic Author
Posts: 94
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:55 am

Landing fees in special cases

Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:45 am

Dear a.netters,

I would like to ask a few questions about landing fees in special/abnormal scenarios.
In normal operations, things are quite clear to me: When you land an airoplane at the destination airport, you'vo got to pay the landing fee. Now, what happens in a few special / abnormal operation scenarios, like the following ones:

- Go-around, flying the pattern and complete a successful landing on your second attempt: one or two fees?
- Same as above, but with runway contact (balked landing)
- Approach and go-around at airport A, then divert to airport B: where is the fee due? Only at B or also at A?
- Touch-and-go's for training purposes: do you have to pay the full fee at every round, or is there a special tariff?
- Medical diversion during night curfew: Do emergencies have to pay the fee? Do they have to pay a supplement for night landings?

Thank you in advance for your insight!

Hendric
 
flipdewaf
Posts: 2711
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:28 am

Re: Landing fees in special cases

Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:50 am

My only real experience of this is from when I was training for my PPL. I think the invoices worked out as ~£20-24 handling fees for each flight (increase with inflation whilst training) but if I was doing circuits I was charged an extra £6/touch and go.

Fred
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GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 2980
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Landing fees in special cases

Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:18 am

It depends on the airport. The fee structure varies, so no hard answer. I ran up a hideous bill once at Pointe Noir, Congo-lights, approach, landing, parking and couple of other things. Chateauroux charged me for a couple of touch and goes and a full stop while doing an article for Air and Cosmos.

Pilots rarely see the bills.
 
tu204
Posts: 1824
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:36 am

Re: Landing fees in special cases

Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:26 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
It depends on the airport. The fee structure varies, so no hard answer. I ran up a hideous bill once at Pointe Noir, Congo-lights, approach, landing, parking and couple of other things. Chateauroux charged me for a couple of touch and goes and a full stop while doing an article for Air and Cosmos.

Pilots rarely see the bills.


Oooh yeah. Love those Central African "runway lights" fees.

Out if curiousity - what were the "couple of other things"? Curious since I worked in that part of the World as well.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 2980
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Landing fees in special cases

Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:40 am

IIRC, the nav fees and tower, it’s been awhile. SNCP was supposed to pay them, but I had to sign a hand written bill acknowledging using the facility. We’d come over from Brazzaville and Jepp ITP didn’t have a handler there. There were also fees for flight plan filing and weather package. Funny, first question from the handler at Younda Cameroon was, “how were the fees paid at Pointe Noir? SNCP seemed to work.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 2562
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Landing fees in special cases

Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:15 pm

hitower3 wrote:
- Go-around, flying the pattern and complete a successful landing on your second attempt: one or two fees?
- Same as above, but with runway contact (balked landing)
- Approach and go-around at airport A, then divert to airport B: where is the fee due? Only at B or also at A?
- Touch-and-go's for training purposes: do you have to pay the full fee at every round, or is there a special tariff?


From my flying school days across Scandinavia:

You pay whenever you touch at whichever airport you touch. Missed approaches and low-passes are free.

We would often go to a small airstrip to practice. We were told to always touch down (ergo, no intentional missed approaches) at that strip in the name of good airmanship, as the airfield was limited in the number of approaches permitted per year, but would only get paid if we landed. The cost was bundled in the course, so as students we really had no incentive to not do so.

Another case was the international airports we passed from time to time. ATC would sometimes allow us to do low passes over the runway, but never to touch. That would incur the fee. It wasn't unheard of for some to be allowed to do so anyway, but most were told not to.



hitower3 wrote:
- Medical diversion during night curfew: Do emergencies have to pay the fee? Do they have to pay a supplement for night landings?


AFAIK medical flights and emergency diversions are exempt from all fees and even rules as long as they are declared.

Again during my flight training, 10+ aircraft in the circuit when an ambulance King Air comes in. After the mandatory pan-pan call, it tells tower what runway it is landing on (opposite to the one in use) and tower then tells everybody else to scatter off to make way.


All of the above may differ from country to country and airport to airport.
 
slcguy
Posts: 325
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:09 pm

Re: Landing fees in special cases

Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:45 am

hitower3 wrote:
Dear a.netters,

I would like to ask a few questions about landing fees in special/abnormal scenarios.
In normal operations, things are quite clear to me: When you land an airoplane at the destination airport, you'vo got to pay the landing fee. Now, what happens in a few special / abnormal operation scenarios, like the following ones:

- Go-around, flying the pattern and complete a successful landing on your second attempt: one or two fees?
- Same as above, but with runway contact (balked landing)
- Approach and go-around at airport A, then divert to airport B: where is the fee due? Only at B or also at A?
- Touch-and-go's for training purposes: do you have to pay the full fee at every round, or is there a special tariff?
- Medical diversion during night curfew: Do emergencies have to pay the fee? Do they have to pay a supplement for night landings?

Thank you in advance for your insight!

Hendric


As stated in other posts this can vary from airport to airport and country to country. In general the following applies to larger airports in the US.

Go around/balked landings, only one landing fee no matter how many attempts.
Approach to airport A then divert to airport B. Only airport B will get the landing fee.
Training touch and go's, commercial aircraft one fee if they finally make a full stop and park. GA, generally no fee for privately owned local aircraft. An aircraft operated by a FBO as a rental/flight school aircraft or transient aircraft doing business with the FBO one fee, individual touch and gos don't count.
Emergency aircraft for medical or mechanical reasons generally fees are waived.
Also no fee for military or government aircraft.

Again this can vary (so don't flame me if your airport does something different) but this is pretty much the norm in the US.
 
hitower3
Topic Author
Posts: 94
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:55 am

Re: Landing fees in special cases

Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:07 am

slcguy wrote:

As stated in other posts this can vary from airport to airport and country to country. In general the following applies to larger airports in the US.

Go around/balked landings, only one landing fee no matter how many attempts.
Approach to airport A then divert to airport B. Only airport B will get the landing fee.
Training touch and go's, commercial aircraft one fee if they finally make a full stop and park. GA, generally no fee for privately owned local aircraft. An aircraft operated by a FBO as a rental/flight school aircraft or transient aircraft doing business with the FBO one fee, individual touch and gos don't count.
Emergency aircraft for medical or mechanical reasons generally fees are waived.
Also no fee for military or government aircraft.

Again this can vary (so don't flame me if your airport does something different) but this is pretty much the norm in the US.


Dear slcguy and others,

Thank you very much for your insights!
Hendric
 
N1120A
Posts: 26485
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

Re: Landing fees in special cases

Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:41 pm

In the US, the vast majority of airports don't have landing fees for aircraft weighing under 12,500 pounds. There are exceptions, and their exceptions have exceptions. For example, KSMO has a landing fee for all aircraft, and it is weight based. Around $11 for a lot of light singles, a little less for LSAs. One fee for a go around/full stop, unless, I guess, you divert. They also charge per touch and go, which means a lot of training aircraft based there fly to places like LGB or VNY to work the pattern. There are some light sports based there that just work the pattern at KSMO. Meanwhile, KOAK is different. They have a reasonable substantial, for the US, landing fee of $49 for light aircraft. They don't charge it at all to based aircraft, and there is still at least one school there. I also don't think they charge it more than once to folks who come in to work the pattern.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
User avatar
kitplane01
Posts: 1306
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:58 am

Re: Landing fees in special cases

Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:29 am

VSMUT wrote:
hitower3 wrote:
- Go-around, flying the pattern and complete a successful landing on your second attempt: one or two fees?
- Same as above, but with runway contact (balked landing)
- Approach and go-around at airport A, then divert to airport B: where is the fee due? Only at B or also at A?
- Touch-and-go's for training purposes: do you have to pay the full fee at every round, or is there a special tariff?


From my flying school days across Scandinavia:

You pay whenever you touch at whichever airport you touch. Missed approaches and low-passes are free.

We would often go to a small airstrip to practice. We were told to always touch down (ergo, no intentional missed approaches) at that strip in the name of good airmanship, as the airfield was limited in the number of approaches permitted per year, but would only get paid if we landed. The cost was bundled in the course, so as students we really had no incentive to not do so.

Another case was the international airports we passed from time to time. ATC would sometimes allow us to do low passes over the runway, but never to touch. That would incur the fee. It wasn't unheard of for some to be allowed to do so anyway, but most were told not to.



hitower3 wrote:
- Medical diversion during night curfew: Do emergencies have to pay the fee? Do they have to pay a supplement for night landings?


AFAIK medical flights and emergency diversions are exempt from all fees and even rules as long as they are declared.

Again during my flight training, 10+ aircraft in the circuit when an ambulance King Air comes in. After the mandatory pan-pan call, it tells tower what runway it is landing on (opposite to the one in use) and tower then tells everybody else to scatter off to make way.


All of the above may differ from country to country and airport to airport.


This is so different than flying in the US.

In my 25 years of flying, I've only paid a fee at one single airport, and they charge $10.50 but only if you park.

We get medical King Airs occasionally, and they never mess up the pattern. Was this an emergency or is this how normal medical flights work in the Old World?

Our runway is over 10,000 feet long. For training you can get three takeoffs-landings before you have to enter the pattern and go again. Take off, climb to ten feet, and then land. Repeat. (I've done more, but three is a reasonable number.) How would they charge that in Scandinavia?
 
jetblueguy22
Posts: 3151
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:26 am

Re: Landing fees in special cases

Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:47 am

kitplane01 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
hitower3 wrote:
- Go-around, flying the pattern and complete a successful landing on your second attempt: one or two fees?
- Same as above, but with runway contact (balked landing)
- Approach and go-around at airport A, then divert to airport B: where is the fee due? Only at B or also at A?
- Touch-and-go's for training purposes: do you have to pay the full fee at every round, or is there a special tariff?


From my flying school days across Scandinavia:

You pay whenever you touch at whichever airport you touch. Missed approaches and low-passes are free.

We would often go to a small airstrip to practice. We were told to always touch down (ergo, no intentional missed approaches) at that strip in the name of good airmanship, as the airfield was limited in the number of approaches permitted per year, but would only get paid if we landed. The cost was bundled in the course, so as students we really had no incentive to not do so.

Another case was the international airports we passed from time to time. ATC would sometimes allow us to do low passes over the runway, but never to touch. That would incur the fee. It wasn't unheard of for some to be allowed to do so anyway, but most were told not to.



hitower3 wrote:
- Medical diversion during night curfew: Do emergencies have to pay the fee? Do they have to pay a supplement for night landings?


AFAIK medical flights and emergency diversions are exempt from all fees and even rules as long as they are declared.

Again during my flight training, 10+ aircraft in the circuit when an ambulance King Air comes in. After the mandatory pan-pan call, it tells tower what runway it is landing on (opposite to the one in use) and tower then tells everybody else to scatter off to make way.


All of the above may differ from country to country and airport to airport.


This is so different than flying in the US.

In my 25 years of flying, I've only paid a fee at one single airport, and they charge $10.50 but only if you park.

We get medical King Airs occasionally, and they never mess up the pattern. Was this an emergency or is this how normal medical flights work in the Old World?

Our runway is over 10,000 feet long. For training you can get three takeoffs-landings before you have to enter the pattern and go again. Take off, climb to ten feet, and then land. Repeat. (I've done more, but three is a reasonable number.) How would they charge that in Scandinavia?

I'd absolutely love to know any airport that would allow 3 takeoffs and landings on a runway in one go and how they don't get smacked with a 2x4 courtesy of the FAA.
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
VSMUT
Posts: 2562
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Landing fees in special cases

Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:05 am

kitplane01 wrote:
In my 25 years of flying, I've only paid a fee at one single airport, and they charge $10.50 but only if you park.


Landing fees vary from $14 to $17 here, per landing/touch and go.


kitplane01 wrote:
We get medical King Airs occasionally, and they never mess up the pattern. Was this an emergency or is this how normal medical flights work in the Old World?


This is standard. If it's a medical flight, it's pretty much an emergency. Lives could be at stake. It could be an organ being moved for a transplant or somebody who needs urgent medical attention at a hospital.


kitplane01 wrote:
Our runway is over 10,000 feet long. For training you can get three takeoffs-landings before you have to enter the pattern and go again. Take off, climb to ten feet, and then land. Repeat. (I've done more, but three is a reasonable number.) How would they charge that in Scandinavia?


Sounds more like a balked landing. I'm surprised you are allowed to count those as separate landings. What do you even learn from that? A takeoff/landing is so much more than just making contact with the ground. Isn't a takeoff also defined to 50 ft?
But at the end of the day nobody will check what you write in your logbook, except maybe a future employer during an interview. You could write 20 takeoffs/landings and nobody would care.

BTW, just checked regarding missed approach during training flights. At most major airports they count as landings too and incur a fee.
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 13639
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Landing fees in special cases

Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:08 am

hitower3 wrote:
- Go-around, flying the pattern and complete a successful landing on your second attempt: one or two fees?


Depends on the airport, some airports have a cost recovery for every approach to pay for ATC, publishing the approach, Navaid maintenance.

hitower3 wrote:
- Same as above, but with runway contact (balked landing)


Landing and same situation with the approach above.

hitower3 wrote:
- Approach and go-around at airport A, then divert to airport B: where is the fee due? Only at B or also at A?


Can be 2 approach fees and one landing fee.

hitower3 wrote:
- Touch-and-go's for training purposes: do you have to pay the full fee at every round, or is there a special tariff?


Large aircraft its a landing fee each time.

hitower3 wrote:
- Medical diversion during night curfew: Do emergencies have to pay the fee? Do they have to pay a supplement for night landings?


Landing fee is billed as normal. The fine associated with curfews are normally also billed (automated system), and you have to retrospectively get them cancelled on the basis of being an emergency.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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airkas1
Head Screener
Posts: 7447
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Re: Landing fees in special cases

Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:22 am

At my airport/in my experience:

hitower3 wrote:
- Go-around, flying the pattern and complete a successful landing on your second attempt: one or two fees?

If intentional/for training purposes - 1x cross-country fee, 1x local fee. If last resort/instructed by ATC it may depend. If for safety reasons, no fee.

hitower3 wrote:
- Same as above, but with runway contact (balked landing)

Same answer as above. Basically, if you fly the approach, you pay.

hitower3 wrote:
- Approach and go-around at airport A, then divert to airport B: where is the fee due? Only at B or also at A?

At both airports.

hitower3 wrote:
- Touch-and-go's for training purposes: do you have to pay the full fee at every round, or is there a special tariff?

Unless a discount is agreed upon beforehand, full tariff. But local fee is a few Euro's less than a cross-country fee.

hitower3 wrote:
- Medical diversion during night curfew: Do emergencies have to pay the fee? Do they have to pay a supplement for night landings?

Normal landing fee tariff for the operator. The donor organisation chips in for the extra opening during curfew (I don't know the amount for that).

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