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Pilots of airlines only flying MAX version of the B737

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:10 am
by harleydriver
What are the pilots of the B737 MAX doing for airlines that only fly the MAX version? It's easy to figure out what pilots are doing that have MAX and NG, they are just flying the NG. Airlines like Air Canada as an example, what are they doing? I imagine they don't just go back to flying what they were flying before as other pilots have been trained and are currently flying. Are they on a "mini vacation?" Do they maintain currency on the sims?

Re: Pilots of airlines only flying MAX version of the B737

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:36 am
by afterburner
Icelandair lays 24 pilots and suspends the recruitment process of 21 737Max pilots.
https://simpleflying.com/icelandair-let ... ax-pilots/

Re: Pilots of airlines only flying MAX version of the B737

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:52 pm
by NeBaNi
I asked a similar question a couple of months ago, and the answers here are interesting, give this a read:
https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1420697

Re: Pilots of airlines only flying MAX version of the B737

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:58 pm
by harleydriver
Great, thanks! I did a search and didn't see any similar threads.

Re: Pilots of airlines only flying MAX version of the B737

Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:52 am
by hongkongflyer
afterburner wrote:
Icelandair lays 24 pilots and suspends the recruitment process of 21 737Max pilots.
https://simpleflying.com/icelandair-let ... ax-pilots/


sounds a stupid move to let go pilots that you have spend resources to train them,
when the MAX grounding will not last for years.

After the grounding, where can Icelandair find (at lease 45) qualified pilots for their MAX while
every other airlines have pilots ready to fly the MAX.

Re: Pilots of airlines only flying MAX version of the B737

Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:03 pm
by harleydriver
That does surprise me, to furlough MAX pilots. FI invested in their training and they risk losing those pilots to other airlines. I guess it is more expensive to pay them a salary and not fly than to retrain new pilots when the MAX can be flown again. I guess they are expecting the grounding to last a fairly long time.

Re: Pilots of airlines only flying MAX version of the B737

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:18 pm
by Dalmd88
Just because they are furloughed doesn't mean an airline loses those pilots for the future. After 9/11 many airlines in the US furloughed pilots. If it was a major airline most came back.

With union contracts in the US I doubt an airline would be able to furlough from type. Say there are 200 Max pilots that are in excess. They would furlough the bottom 200 pilots and remaining Max group would have to bid into the open spots. It creates a huge domino effect for training so It might be cheaper to just pay them reserve min.

As for a 757 type rated crew switching, there would have to be open roster spots on the 757. They system needs only a finite number of pilots for type. Other wise you are paying min hours to sit at home and you put the Max crew through a training cycle to get current.

Re: Pilots of airlines only flying MAX version of the B737

Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:19 pm
by VSMUT
hongkongflyer wrote:
afterburner wrote:
Icelandair lays 24 pilots and suspends the recruitment process of 21 737Max pilots.
https://simpleflying.com/icelandair-let ... ax-pilots/


sounds a stupid move to let go pilots that you have spend resources to train them,
when the MAX grounding will not last for years.

After the grounding, where can Icelandair find (at lease 45) qualified pilots for their MAX while
every other airlines have pilots ready to fly the MAX.


Looking at their pay scale and estimating the cost of a new type rating, you are looking at something like 3 to 4 months salary for a new hire FO to cover the cost of the rating. So in other words, if the grounding is going to be more than 4 months, laying them off and hiring non-rated pilots after the ungrounding would be cheaper.

Re: Pilots of airlines only flying MAX version of the B737

Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:39 pm
by Tartarus
VSMUT wrote:
Looking at their pay scale and estimating the cost of a new type rating, you are looking at something like 3 to 4 months salary for a new hire FO to cover the cost of the rating. So in other words, if the grounding is going to be more than 4 months, laying them off and hiring non-rated pilots after the ungrounding would be cheaper.


And a beancounter's wet dream.

Re: Pilots of airlines only flying MAX version of the B737

Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:28 pm
by hongkongflyer
VSMUT wrote:
hongkongflyer wrote:
afterburner wrote:
Icelandair lays 24 pilots and suspends the recruitment process of 21 737Max pilots.
https://simpleflying.com/icelandair-let ... ax-pilots/


sounds a stupid move to let go pilots that you have spend resources to train them,
when the MAX grounding will not last for years.

After the grounding, where can Icelandair find (at lease 45) qualified pilots for their MAX while
every other airlines have pilots ready to fly the MAX.


Looking at their pay scale and estimating the cost of a new type rating, you are looking at something like 3 to 4 months salary for a new hire FO to cover the cost of the rating. So in other words, if the grounding is going to be more than 4 months, laying them off and hiring non-rated pilots after the ungrounding would be cheaper.


assuming you can hire the pilots. Once the grounding is lifted, airlines are all hiring for their new pilots for the MAX. In addition, your MAX will continue to sit on the ground waiting for the newly trained pilots while every other airlines will printing their money flying the MAX.

Re: Pilots of airlines only flying MAX version of the B737

Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:51 pm
by VSMUT
Tartarus wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
Looking at their pay scale and estimating the cost of a new type rating, you are looking at something like 3 to 4 months salary for a new hire FO to cover the cost of the rating. So in other words, if the grounding is going to be more than 4 months, laying them off and hiring non-rated pilots after the ungrounding would be cheaper.


And a beancounter's wet dream.


:checkmark:

I find it disgusting, and absolutely not in the spirit of how things are usually done in the Nordics. A very Michael O'Leary style move.


hongkongflyer wrote:
assuming you can hire the pilots. Once the grounding is lifted, airlines are all hiring for their new pilots for the MAX. In addition, your MAX will continue to sit on the ground waiting for the newly trained pilots while every other airlines will printing their money flying the MAX.


Icelandair is not a bottom-feeder, they can easily find pilots. Last couple of times they hired they received loads of applications, turned down many candidates at the interviews. Almost any pilot flying turboprops, plus many Ryanair and other 737 low-cost pilots would find Icelandair more attractive. Many Scandinavian pilots flying out in Asia the the ME3 have been looking for a chance to get back closer to home.

But you are right about the delay in getting them to the line. My guess is that they are hoping that some will hang around long enough to start work immediately after the planes are released, and that they can poach some 737MAX pilots from other operators.

Either that, or they already decided to get rid of the MAX. :duck:

Re: Pilots of airlines only flying MAX version of the B737

Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:30 am
by OneX123
Tartarus wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
Looking at their pay scale and estimating the cost of a new type rating, you are looking at something like 3 to 4 months salary for a new hire FO to cover the cost of the rating. So in other words, if the grounding is going to be more than 4 months, laying them off and hiring non-rated pilots after the ungrounding would be cheaper.


And a beancounter's wet dream.


Weird...considering the duration of the grounding to this date and the outloook for the near future, the above looks much less like beancounting and much more like a reasonable, rational, business focused analysis. It’s not always fun or pretty but sometimes financial decisions need to be made...