ltbewr
Topic Author
Posts: 14111
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Commecial aircraft cruise altitude 'no fly' zones

Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:00 pm

As we have recently seen as to Iranian and adjacent airspace banned from use by USA based airlines, what are other areas of the world where there are 'no fly' zones by commercial aircraft at cruise altitude. I would assume some of these areas include where armed conflict, hostile countries like North Korea, security and military sensitive areas in the USA, China, Russia and other countries.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 2702
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Commecial aircraft cruise altitude 'no fly' zones

Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:17 pm

North Korea isn't a no-fly zone. It isn't many, but some airlines do overfly them.

Almost every country in the world has no-fly zones. Military exercise areas, firing ranges for missiles, rocket launch sites, secret government facilities or over city centres like Paris, New York or Seoul.
 
spacecadet
Posts: 3396
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2001 3:36 am

Re: Commecial aircraft cruise altitude 'no fly' zones

Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:02 pm

VSMUT wrote:
Almost every country in the world has no-fly zones. Military exercise areas, firing ranges for missiles, rocket launch sites, secret government facilities or over city centres like Paris, New York or Seoul.


He was asking specifically about "cruise altitude" no fly zones. I don't know about too many of those. You can certainly fly over New York at cruise in an airliner. (I don't know specifically about Paris, but you can fly over New York at basically any otherwise legal altitude as long as you're cleared to do it - there's no prohibited airspace.)

There are a lot of lower altitude restrictions, but these generally top out at 18,000 feet, which is the floor of Class A airspace in the USA (not sure of the rest of the world). Even the Washington, DC flight restriction zone tops out at 18,000.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
VSMUT
Posts: 2702
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Commecial aircraft cruise altitude 'no fly' zones

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:47 pm

spacecadet wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
Almost every country in the world has no-fly zones. Military exercise areas, firing ranges for missiles, rocket launch sites, secret government facilities or over city centres like Paris, New York or Seoul.


He was asking specifically about "cruise altitude" no fly zones. I don't know about too many of those. You can certainly fly over New York at cruise in an airliner. (I don't know specifically about Paris, but you can fly over New York at basically any otherwise legal altitude as long as you're cleared to do it - there's no prohibited airspace.)

There are a lot of lower altitude restrictions, but these generally top out at 18,000 feet, which is the floor of Class A airspace in the USA (not sure of the rest of the world). Even the Washington, DC flight restriction zone tops out at 18,000.


Those exist all over Europe too. Military restricted and prohibited areas for the most part. Everything from air force training ranges and firing ranges to paranoid militaries who are afraid you will take aerial photos of some antiquated corvettes at a pretty much disused naval base etc.
 
User avatar
ElroyJetson
Posts: 633
Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 5:04 am

Re: Commecial aircraft cruise altitude 'no fly' zones

Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:46 am

I am from Virginia. Camp Peary is a CIA training base in the tidewater area. It does not appear on google maps and it cannot be overflown. Many such sites exist.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Peary
707 717 727 72S 737 733 737-700 747 757 753 767-300 764 A319 A320 DC-9-10 DC-9-30 DC-9-50, MD-82 MD-88 MD-90 DC-10-10 DC-10-40 F-100
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 3147
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Commecial aircraft cruise altitude 'no fly' zones

Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:57 am

It certainly appears on US FAA Sectional charts and has several published approach procedures. And no restricted or prohibited airspace shown.

GF
 
User avatar
Pellegrine
Posts: 2254
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:19 am

Re: Commecial aircraft cruise altitude 'no fly' zones

Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:02 am

Since MH17 airlines operated based of of information given by the US, UK, French, and German authorities. Sometimes that information contradicts each other or is political in nature (or only applicable to US carriers for example).

At the moment notam A0019/19 prohibits US aircraft operators from entering Tehran Flight Information Region (OIIX) FIR in the area above the Persian Gulf and Gulf of Oman.

Also at the moment:
-US has a notam prohibiting overflight of Venezuela below FL260
-US, UK, Germany recommend overflight of Mali above FL260 and not landing at certain airports
-France: operators should avoid Libyan airspace
-US, Germany: operators should not overfly NW Libya, recommend overflight of the rest of the country above either FL260/FL300
-Germany, France, USA: operators should overfly South Sudan above FL240/FL260/FL300
-US, France, Germany: do not overfly SANAA FIR (Yemen)
-US, France, Germany: flights prohibited over Syrian Airspace
-UK: danger to flights within 200nm of DAMASCUS FIR

etc. etc. etc.
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
jetwet1
Posts: 2824
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:42 am

Re: Commecial aircraft cruise altitude 'no fly' zones

Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:18 am

Is Groom Lake still a no fly zone ? I remember being on a RNO-LAS flight on WN and the pilot pointing out the lights off to the right-hand side not actually being there, this would have been the late '90's
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 3147
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Commecial aircraft cruise altitude 'no fly' zones

Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:40 pm

Oh yes, it is. The entire range complex is
 
BravoOne
Posts: 3356
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: Commecial aircraft cruise altitude 'no fly' zones

Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:42 pm

Yes Groom Lake, aka, Area 51 is Restricted Airspace and I think its from the ground up? A good part of Nevada is taken up by Restricted airspace. The Nellis Range, Tonopah Range, Edwards Range to the west remain restricted for the most part.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 3147
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Commecial aircraft cruise altitude 'no fly' zones

Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:05 pm

The “Box” is restricted even to military flights in the range airspace. Heaven forbid you fly thru it by accident.
 
BravoOne
Posts: 3356
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: Commecial aircraft cruise altitude 'no fly' zones

Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:20 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
The “Box” is restricted even to military flights in the range airspace. Heaven forbid you fly thru it by accident.


Last month a friend and I drove to about 100 yrds of the Area 51, back gate. Even in daylight the place was spooky and you could feel the camp contractors staring at you. To access the back gate you drive up a well kept unmarked dirt road for about 7 miles off the main highway.
 
User avatar
gunsontheroof
Posts: 3519
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:30 am

Re: Commecial aircraft cruise altitude 'no fly' zones

Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:32 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
The “Box” is restricted even to military flights in the range airspace. Heaven forbid you fly thru it by accident.


I have read that military pilots who ask if they can use the runway inside "the box" for an emergency landing during training are told they'd better punch out if they can't make it elsewhere. They're not messing around out there.
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 3147
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Commecial aircraft cruise altitude 'no fly' zones

Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:33 pm

Possibly true, but guys that have accidentally passed thru “lost” generally get a severe talking to and don’t say a word about it. The AF has admitted it exists, so I’d guess you could land as an emergency.
 
RetiredWeasel
Posts: 698
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:16 pm

Re: Commecial aircraft cruise altitude 'no fly' zones

Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:08 pm

Tacking on to GalaxyFlyer's thoughts:
Digging deep into my memory, I vaguely recall that at the Red Flag indoc briefings, it was emphasized that the 'box' was a serious no fly zone. However, in case of an emergency, Groom Lake could be used although Tonapah test airfield was the preferred runway. My recall is fuzzy, but I think it was actually used a couple of time by emergency aircraft. Pilot's were probably extensively debriefed but their careers would not have been adversely affected.
 
blueflyer
Posts: 4064
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:17 am

Re: Commecial aircraft cruise altitude 'no fly' zones

Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:16 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Possibly true, but guys that have accidentally passed thru “lost” generally get a severe talking to and don’t say a word about it. The AF has admitted it exists, so I’d guess you could land as an emergency.

You can land in an emergency and you will not get shot or be disappeared, but there will be a conversation. The tone of the conversation will depend on whether the emergency appears justified.
 
dfwjim1
Posts: 2166
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:46 pm

Re: Commecial aircraft cruise altitude 'no fly' zones

Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:06 pm

blueflyer wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Possibly true, but guys that have accidentally passed thru “lost” generally get a severe talking to and don’t say a word about it. The AF has admitted it exists, so I’d guess you could land as an emergency.

You can land in an emergency and you will not get shot or be disappeared, but there will be a conversation. The tone of the conversation will depend on whether the emergency appears justified.

This policy makes sense in an extreme emergency. I suppose with enough warning any secret projects going on could be put in a hanger/covered before the aircraft in emergency lamds.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CO752 and 17 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos