ihmcallister
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Why did DL remove Winglets on some of their 757 fleet?

Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:39 pm

Delta still operates a large number of 757s. Why did they remove the winglets from some of them? N649DL and N650DL are examples.
Last edited by SQ22 on Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title was non-distinctive
 
MO11
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Re: Why did DL remove Winglets on some of their 757 fleet?

Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:05 pm

Technically, those are not Delta airplanes. They were sold to a leasing company which leases them to a trust controlled by the NBA. Delta operates those airplanes under a CMI arrangement.
 
Delta757MD88
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Re: Why did DL remove Winglets on some of their 757 fleet?

Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:17 pm

Some of the Airplanes, like N650DL have a special charter config for sports and other charters. Where as other wingleted 75's tend to be for PAX. Some non-winglet 757's are still for pax.
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stratclub
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Re: Why did DL remove Winglets on some of their 757 fleet?

Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:57 pm

Were any of the 757's delivered from Boeing with winglets? MY guess is that more likely, winglets were added after delivery by Aviation Partners Boeing STC's.
I was working at Boeing as an Airworthiness Inspector until about 1999-2000 and don't recall seeing any 757 delivered with winglets. IDK about the years 2000 and end of production in 2004.
http://www.aero-news.net/aNNTicker.cfm? ... 3e87174720
 
LH707330
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Re: Why did DL remove Winglets on some of their 757 fleet?

Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:07 pm

stratclub wrote:
Were any of the 757's delivered from Boeing with winglets? MY guess is that more likely, winglets were added after delivery by Aviation Partners Boeing STC's.
I was working at Boeing as an Airworthiness Inspector until about 1999-2000 and don't recall seeing any 757 delivered with winglets. IDK about the years 2000 and end of production in 2004.
http://www.aero-news.net/aNNTicker.cfm? ... 3e87174720

I'm pretty sure that 100% of them were retrofits, no factory installs.
 
Armadillo1
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Re: Why did DL remove Winglets on some of their 757 fleet?

Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:45 pm

So its actually removed or just not installed?
 
TSS
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Re: Why did DL remove Winglets on some of their 757 fleet?

Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:09 pm

LH707330 wrote:
stratclub wrote:
Were any of the 757's delivered from Boeing with winglets? MY guess is that more likely, winglets were added after delivery by Aviation Partners Boeing STC's.
I was working at Boeing as an Airworthiness Inspector until about 1999-2000 and don't recall seeing any 757 delivered with winglets. IDK about the years 2000 and end of production in 2004.
http://www.aero-news.net/aNNTicker.cfm? ... 3e87174720

I'm pretty sure that 100% of them were retrofits, no factory installs.


As I recall Boeing had just made winglets an option on new-build 737 NGs when I joined this site in late 2004, and there was much speculation as to whether they could be retrofitted to already in-service NGs and possibly even 737 Classics at that time. Winglets for 757s didn't become available until a while, perhaps six months or more, after that.

Oddly enough looking back, there were quite a few heated debates on here about the looks of aircraft equipped with winglets, with a surprising number of people being opposed to the installation of winglets based on appearance alone. How far we've come that now jet aircraft look strange if they don't have winglets.
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Dalmd88
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Re: Why did DL remove Winglets on some of their 757 fleet?

Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:10 pm

Armadillo1 wrote:
So its actually removed or just not installed?

Removed I believe for all of them. There were two 757 that were still in the DL passenger fleet that never had winglets installed. There were existing wing repairs that made them not eligible for the winglet mod do to the increased stress from the winglet.
 
dangrad
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Re: Why did DL remove Winglets on some of their 757 fleet?

Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:33 pm

There are 11 75Cs (charter airplanes) all of which have 72 installed seats. Some of the 11 (ship #s 649, 650, 651, 652, 654, 655, 661, 662, 663, 664, 666) had winglets installed prior to their induction into the charter fleet in 2016 when they were flying revenue passenger flights. Those winglets were harvested and reinstalled on other passenger 757s. Some of the airplanes to receive these salvaged winglets were ships 67xx and 68xx. More than 11 salvaged winglets were installed as some older parked 757s had their winglets harvested and reinstalled on the 67xx and 68xx ships.
 
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AirKevin
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Re: Why did DL remove Winglets on some of their 757 fleet?

Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:33 pm

Armadillo1 wrote:
So its actually removed or just not installed?

Looks like they were removed. See N650DL below, from left to right, in 2006, 2013, and 2017.
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dennypayne
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Re: Why did DL remove Winglets on some of their 757 fleet?

Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:32 pm

Dalmd88 wrote:
Armadillo1 wrote:
So its actually removed or just not installed?

Removed I believe for all of them. There were two 757 that were still in the DL passenger fleet that never had winglets installed. There were existing wing repairs that made them not eligible for the winglet mod do to the increased stress from the winglet.


I flew on N680DA the other day and I believe it is one of those - I cannot find any pictures of it with winglets anyway. It's in a 'normal' passenger config.
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slcguy
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Re: Why did DL remove Winglets on some of their 757 fleet?

Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:47 pm

AirKevin wrote:
Armadillo1 wrote:
So its actually removed or just not installed?

Looks like they were removed. See N650DL below, from left to right, in 2006, 2013, and 2017.


No 757s were produced by Boeing with winglets. N650DL was delivered to Delta without them, went on to become a Song Aircraft also without them. When Song was folded it reverted back to Delta and the winglets were installed. When Delta and the NBA entered into the corporate ownership/operating arrangement for a dedicated fleet of specialized 72 seat 757s for NBA/sports charters N650DL became part of that fleet. As stated in a previous post, any of the charter aircraft with winglets had them removed and they were reinstalled on other 757s in Delta's fleet. The charter arrangement is set up so Delta makes money and the NBA and other sports teams get an aircraft that suits there needs, the winglets were put to better use in the regular Delta 757 fleet. In addition to the charter aircraft there is a small number of the regular pax fleet that have never had winglets installed.
 
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AirKevin
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Re: Why did DL remove Winglets on some of their 757 fleet?

Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:59 pm

slcguy wrote:
AirKevin wrote:
Armadillo1 wrote:
So its actually removed or just not installed?

Looks like they were removed. See N650DL below, from left to right, in 2006, 2013, and 2017.

No 757s were produced by Boeing with winglets.

Yes, I'm aware of that. The question I responded to asked if the winglets were actually removed or if it was a plane that never had them installed in the first place. As you can see in the pictures I posted, N650DL started out without winglets, had them installed, and then removed.
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slcguy
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Re: Why did DL remove Winglets on some of their 757 fleet?

Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:45 pm

AirKevin wrote:
slcguy wrote:
AirKevin wrote:
Looks like they were removed. See N650DL below, from left to right, in 2006, 2013, and 2017.

No 757s were produced by Boeing with winglets.

Yes, I'm aware of that. The question I responded to asked if the winglets were actually removed or if it was a plane that never had them installed in the first place. As you can see in the pictures I posted, N650DL started out without winglets, had them installed, and then removed.


Isn't that what I just said, yes they were removed when it became one of the charter fleet.
 
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AirKevin
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Re: Why did DL remove Winglets on some of their 757 fleet?

Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:07 pm

slcguy wrote:
AirKevin wrote:
slcguy wrote:
No 757s were produced by Boeing with winglets.

Yes, I'm aware of that. The question I responded to asked if the winglets were actually removed or if it was a plane that never had them installed in the first place. As you can see in the pictures I posted, N650DL started out without winglets, had them installed, and then removed.

Isn't that what I just said, yes they were removed when it became one of the charter fleet.

I guess I'm confused as to why you quoted me and said Boeing never produced a 757 with winglets. I already knew that, but that wasn't even the question.
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slcguy
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Re: Why did DL remove Winglets on some of their 757 fleet?

Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:40 pm

AirKevin wrote:
slcguy wrote:
AirKevin wrote:
Yes, I'm aware of that. The question I responded to asked if the winglets were actually removed or if it was a plane that never had them installed in the first place. As you can see in the pictures I posted, N650DL started out without winglets, had them installed, and then removed.

Isn't that what I just said, yes they were removed when it became one of the charter fleet.

I guess I'm confused as to why you quoted me and said Boeing never produced a 757 with winglets. I already knew that, but that wasn't even the question.


Sorry for the confusion, I was summarizing winglets on Delta aircraft in general, I quoted your post because it had pics showing what we were talking about, The mention of no aircraft being produced by Boeing with them was intended to clear up the misconception by some people that assume they were installed on later aircraft when they were built.
 
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HAWK21M
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Re: Why did DL remove Winglets on some of their 757 fleet?

Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:33 pm

Apart from reducing fuel consumption, Winglets also add on weight.
If the flights are not cruising for too long, the fuel efficiency achieved would be less than the weight added & wont serve the purpose.
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747classic
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Re: Why did DL remove Winglets on some of their 757 fleet?

Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:00 am

Removing the winglets will only partly reduce the total added weight during the (after market) winglet installation.

757-200 winglet installation weight impact :
Winglet 291 lbs
Wing modification 782 lbs
Ballast 247 lbs

So after removing the winglets and ballast the aircraft will still be approx 782 lbs heavier than a normal never winglet modified 757-200.

See : http://www.aviationpartnersboeing.com/p ... 57_200.php and select : weight impact.
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