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trpmb6
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Citation Hemisphere Suspended

Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:01 pm

Textron announced on their Q2 earnings call today that they will be suspending the Citation Hemisphere program and that they have terminated their contract with Safran for the silvercrest engine.

That makes two manufacturers who have backed out of using the Safran Silvercrest due to its performance issues.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2019-07-17/textron-aviation-puts-large-cabin-hemisphere-hold

[/Hemisphere could be revived at a later date, Donnelly acknowledged, but for now it’s “on hold” because the Wichita-based manufacturer isn’t satisfied with progress on the development of the Safran Silvercrest engine that would power it.

Further, Safran said its initial contract with Textron Aviation for the Silvercrest has been terminated with no financial impact to either company. The troubled engine program, which caused French airframer Dassault to cancel the Falcon 5X in late 2017, has made progress on fixing the engine’s high-pressure compressor but so far is falling short of what Textron needs.

“The engine hasn’t yet demonstrated the performance required for the aircraft,” Donnelly explained. “We would certainly revisit it [Hemisphere], but too much time has gone by here.”


My understanding is it is not just the high pressure compressor that is causing the performance issues. Its just not meeting any of the targets spelled out. Apparently enough to allow breaking the contract without any financial penalties.

Cessna already has its plate full with multiple programs at this point. Makes you wonder what their long term position with the Hemisphere is given they already have 150 options on the book with Netjets.

What options are available to replace the silvercrest engine? Any existing engines that can fit that role?
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Citation Hemisphere Suspended

Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:22 pm

PW800 is the choice for Dassault, I believe. Cessna will do the same after a decent interval.

GF
 
DashTrash
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Re: Citation Hemisphere Suspended

Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:04 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
PW800 is the choice for Dassault, I believe. Cessna will do the same after a decent interval.

GF

Doesn’t sound like Cessna can meet its performance or price goals with that engine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Palumboism
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Re: Citation Hemisphere Suspended

Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:24 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
PW800 is the choice for Dassault, I believe. Cessna will do the same after a decent interval.

GF


It's a large step up in price and performance for the PW800 and it requires significant changes to the aircraft to justify that added cost. Dassault redesigned the 5X to become the 6X and went from 3000 nm range to 5500 nm.
 
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rjsampson
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Re: Citation Hemisphere Suspended

Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:13 am

I can't imagine what this Silvercrest misadventure must mean for Safran. Relegating the engine to being an "R&D" platform is tantamount to admitting failure. Gotta wonder how many billions of dollars are up in smoke as a result, not to mention their reputation as a company that can develop their own aircraft turbine engine.

Of course: Being 50/50 with GE in CFM suggests that they'll be just fine financially. I just find it striking that, with decades of experience working with GE on the CFM56 (and nextgen technologies on the LEAP), Safran's Silvercrest was such a spectacular failure. My guess is that it would be decades before another Safran-only engine ends up in service on an aircraft pylon.
"..your eyes will be forever turned skyward, for there.." yeah we know the DaVinci quote. But GA is so dang expensive these days! :(
 
Palumboism
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Re: Citation Hemisphere Suspended

Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:56 pm

rjsampson wrote:
I can't imagine what this Silvercrest misadventure must mean for Safran. Relegating the engine to being an "R&D" platform is tantamount to admitting failure. Gotta wonder how many billions of dollars are up in smoke as a result, not to mention their reputation as a company that can develop their own aircraft turbine engine.

Of course: Being 50/50 with GE in CFM suggests that they'll be just fine financially. I just find it striking that, with decades of experience working with GE on the CFM56 (and nextgen technologies on the LEAP), Safran's Silvercrest was such a spectacular failure. My guess is that it would be decades before another Safran-only engine ends up in service on an aircraft pylon.



I was thinking the same thing, it's baffling why they couldn't make the Silvercrest engine work. I think they were trying to rush it and were being too optimistic about the development time. Safran supplies the 11,600 SHP engines on the airbus A400M and I think that was they're top priority. I'm sure the Silvercrest will eventually launch, but they ruined their reputation with the aircraft manufacturers and may never be able to sell the engine to Dassault and Cessna in the future. More competition for engine manufactures is always welcome by customers.
 
WIederling
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Re: Citation Hemisphere Suspended

Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:51 am

ref:
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... est-issues

In February of this year things still sounded different.

then:
Safran is not junior partner in the CFM56 and follow up.
( Actually for the CFM GE was the partner SNECMA ( later Safran ) selected from the global 3 to have international support. Based on good match up between Gerhard Neumann from GE and René Ravaud SNECMA )
Murphy is an optimist
 
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ODwyerPW
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Re: Citation Hemisphere Suspended

Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:47 am

Bummer. I'm hoping the Silvercrest engine development recovers. I'd like to see that engine program succeed!
learning never stops.
 
Palumboism
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: Citation Hemisphere Suspended

Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:49 am

ODwyerPW wrote:
Bummer. I'm hoping the Silvercrest engine development recovers. I'd like to see that engine program succeed!


Agreed. I think Safran will succeed in the end, but will need more time to develop the high pressure compressor.

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