SpaceshipDC10
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So there has been a 747-100 with four GEs after all...

Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:08 pm

...or kind of. Up until today I always thought GEs were first installed on -200B. Was RA001 GE-powered the whole time it had the other regisgtration?

"Boeing 747-121, City of Everett, on take off from Boeing Field. The prototype has been re-registered N1352B. RA001 carried this registration number from July 1970 to April 1975. "

https://static.thisdayinaviation.com/wp ... _747-1.jpg
 
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leleko747
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Re: So there has been a 747-100 with four GEs after all...

Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:29 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
...or kind of. Up until today I always thought GEs were first installed on -200B. Was RA001 GE-powered the whole time it had the other regisgtration?


It originally had the JT9D. Probably it was a testbed for the GE CF6-50 engines. I remember seeing a pic of it with a GE90 at some point! :eyepopping:

EDIT: Actually, the one with GE90 was the GE testbed 747-100 ex-Pan Am.
But here's RA001 with a Rolls Royce Trent of the 777.

I wonder when people will understand:
Embraer 190 or simply E190, not ERJ-190. E-Jets are NOT ERJs!
Boeing 747-8, not Boeing 747-800. Same goes for 787.
Airbus A320, not Airbus 320.
Airbii does not exist.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: So there has been a 747-100 with four GEs after all...

Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:16 pm

leleko747 wrote:
It originally had the JT9D.


It was indeed.

leleko747 wrote:
Probably it was a testbed for the GE CF6-50 engines.


Since it was registered N1352B between 1970 and 1975, I wonder whether it was a GE-engines testbed that whole period of time. That's quite long.
 
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Veigar
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Re: So there has been a 747-100 with four GEs after all...

Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:29 pm

Yo, I believe the link's broken!
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: So there has been a 747-100 with four GEs after all...

Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:23 pm

Veigar wrote:
Yo, I believe the link's broken!


Working fine for me.
 
superbizzy73
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Re: So there has been a 747-100 with four GEs after all...

Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:50 pm

As a side note, somewhere there’s video of RA001 taking off out of KBFI with one of the 777 engines, and the engine has a couple compressor stalls as the aircraft rotated and takes off. Pretty impressive “boom-boom-boom”...
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: So there has been a 747-100 with four GEs after all...

Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:21 pm

superbizzy73 wrote:
As a side note, somewhere there’s video of RA001 taking off out of KBFI with one of the 777 engines, and the engine has a couple compressor stalls as the aircraft rotated and takes off. Pretty impressive “boom-boom-boom”...


It was shown in the excellent documentary about the 777 - it was the PW4000 engine that had compressor stalls.

https://youtu.be/esmbJjK0M7Y?t=1128
I FLY KLM+ALASKA+QATAR+MALAYSIA+AIRASIA+MALINDO
 
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Siren
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Re: So there has been a 747-100 with four GEs after all...

Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:33 am

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
Veigar wrote:
Yo, I believe the link's broken!


Working fine for me.


The website does not allow direct linking to the image from outside websites... do you happen to have the original link/article the image was featured in to link here? That should work.
 
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DL_Mech
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Re: So there has been a 747-100 with four GEs after all...

Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:41 am

This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
SteelChair
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Re: So there has been a 747-100 with four GEs after all...

Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:58 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
superbizzy73 wrote:
As a side note, somewhere there’s video of RA001 taking off out of KBFI with one of the 777 engines, and the engine has a couple compressor stalls as the aircraft rotated and takes off. Pretty impressive “boom-boom-boom”...


It was shown in the excellent documentary about the 777 - it was the PW4000 engine that had compressor stalls.

https://youtu.be/esmbJjK0M7Y?t=1128


What we've come to expect from PW.....
 
Max Q
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Re: So there has been a 747-100 with four GEs after all...

Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:01 am

Those GE engines look outstanding on the 747, they make a beautiful aircraft even more so
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


Guns and the love of them by a loud minority are a malignant and deadly cancer inflicted on American society
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: So there has been a 747-100 with four GEs after all...

Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:15 am

Max Q wrote:
Those GE engines look outstanding on the 747, they make a beautiful aircraft even more so


Agree with you.

http://www.boeing.com/history/products/747.page
 
Western727
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Re: So there has been a 747-100 with four GEs after all...

Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:44 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
superbizzy73 wrote:
As a side note, somewhere there’s video of RA001 taking off out of KBFI with one of the 777 engines, and the engine has a couple compressor stalls as the aircraft rotated and takes off. Pretty impressive “boom-boom-boom”...


It was shown in the excellent documentary about the 777 - it was the PW4000 engine that had compressor stalls.

https://youtu.be/esmbJjK0M7Y?t=1128


I remember this documentary and I enjoyed it very much, indeed. Granted, there's also a clip somewhere that shows the same compressor stalls but from a camera inside the fuselage and forward of the port wing. It's a bit dramatic and cool to watch...but I can't seem to find it on YT and seem to be using the wrong search terms. Can anyone link it here if you can find it, please?
Jack @ AUS
 
Max Q
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Re: So there has been a 747-100 with four GEs after all...

Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:44 am

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
Max Q wrote:
Those GE engines look outstanding on the 747, they make a beautiful aircraft even more so


Agree with you.

http://www.boeing.com/history/products/747.page



Thanks for that, another nice shot
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


Guns and the love of them by a loud minority are a malignant and deadly cancer inflicted on American society
 
skipness1E
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Re: So there has been a 747-100 with four GEs after all...

Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:40 am

Was the B747 prototype ever repainted in it’s whole flying career?
 
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747classic
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Re: So there has been a 747-100 with four GEs after all...

Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:09 am

First flight of the GE CF6-50D powered 747-121 (RA001) was at June 26th 1973.
The 51,000lb, 227kN-thrust CF6-50D was flat-rated to 77°F (25°C).

See : https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive ... 01938.html
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: So there has been a 747-100 with four GEs after all...

Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:33 am

747classic wrote:
First flight of the GE CF6-50D powered 747-121 (RA001) was at June 26th 1973.
The 51,000lb, 227kN-thrust CF6-50D was flat-rated to 77°F (25°C).

See : https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive ... 01938.html


Nice find.

Any known reason as to why it was re-registered N1352B instead of keeping N7470?
 
69bug
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Re: So there has been a 747-100 with four GEs after all...

Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:02 am

A bit of thread drift.. Pratt and Whitney did make a variant of the JT9D which looked like the a bit like the CF6... the -70A variant, But only offered on the 747-200. It was not a great success. I worked for Flying Tigers/Fedex and they had one of these not very popular with the technicians. One went tech because of broken reverser. A new one was ordered and took ages to arrive...duly installed and broke again on the next leg.

http://www.seaboardairlines.org/aircraft/jt9d-70a.htm

bug
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: So there has been a 747-100 with four GEs after all...

Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:14 am

69bug wrote:
A bit of thread drift.. Pratt and Whitney did make a variant of the JT9D which looked like the a bit like the CF6... the -70A variant, But only offered on the 747-200. It was not a great success.


Yes, I remember, when seeing one such engine on a picture several decades ago, I thought it was a GE, except for its rear-end and its slightly more bulky look. Thanks for the link.
 
Western727
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Re: So there has been a 747-100 with four GEs after all...

Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:22 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
69bug wrote:
A bit of thread drift.. Pratt and Whitney did make a variant of the JT9D which looked like the a bit like the CF6... the -70A variant, But only offered on the 747-200. It was not a great success.


Yes, I remember, when seeing one such engine on a picture several decades ago, I thought it was a GE, except for its rear-end and its slightly more bulky look. Thanks for the link.


TIL. I had no idea about the JT9D-70 engine, which based on the photo would indeed likely have fooled me initially. Thank you for sharing.
Jack @ AUS
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: So there has been a 747-100 with four GEs after all...

Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:42 pm

"The engine proposed by P&W for the 747F was the JT9D‑70A. Its nacelle, designed by Rohr Inc., was designed to fit DC‑10s and Airbus A300s, as well as 747s."

http://www.seaboardairlines.org/aircraft/jt9d-70a.htm


 
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hOMSaR
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Re: So there has been a 747-100 with four GEs after all...

Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:02 pm

This forum desperately needs a “Like” button for some of these posts.
The plural of Airbus is Airbuses. Airbii is not a word.
There is no 787-800, nor 787-900 or 747-800. It's 787-8, 787-9, and 747-8.
A321neoLR is also unnecessary. It's simply A321LR.
Airplanes don't have isles, they have aisles.
 
nycbjr
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Re: So there has been a 747-100 with four GEs after all...

Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:37 pm

hOMSaR wrote:
This forum desperately needs a “Like” button for some of these posts.


agreed 100%!
 
Western727
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Re: So there has been a 747-100 with four GEs after all...

Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:51 pm

leleko747 wrote:
SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
...or kind of. Up until today I always thought GEs were first installed on -200B. Was RA001 GE-powered the whole time it had the other regisgtration?


It originally had the JT9D. Probably it was a testbed for the GE CF6-50 engines. I remember seeing a pic of it with a GE90 at some point! :eyepopping:

EDIT: Actually, the one with GE90 was the GE testbed 747-100 ex-Pan Am.
But here's RA001 with a Rolls Royce Trent of the 777.



Y'know, as a GA pilot based out of central TX I would've LOOOOVED to have been at the controls of that GA plane watching RA001 pass by before landing.
Jack @ AUS
 
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leleko747
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Re: So there has been a 747-100 with four GEs after all...

Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:23 pm

69bug wrote:
A bit of thread drift.. Pratt and Whitney did make a variant of the JT9D which looked like the a bit like the CF6... the -70A variant, But only offered on the 747-200. It was not a great success. I worked for Flying Tigers/Fedex and they had one of these not very popular with the technicians. One went tech because of broken reverser. A new one was ordered and took ages to arrive...duly installed and broke again on the next leg.

http://www.seaboardairlines.org/aircraft/jt9d-70a.htm

bug


What a FANTASTIC reading. Thanks for sharing this, I never knew about this JT9D version on the 747-200.
I could swear this was the GE CF6-50 engines. Really wonderful.
Thank you for sharing!!!
I wonder when people will understand:
Embraer 190 or simply E190, not ERJ-190. E-Jets are NOT ERJs!
Boeing 747-8, not Boeing 747-800. Same goes for 787.
Airbus A320, not Airbus 320.
Airbii does not exist.
 
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747classic
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Re: So there has been a 747-100 with four GEs after all...

Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:43 am

The first 747-245F for Seaboard World was delivered, powered by JT9D-7F(W) engines at July 31th 1974, but with the promise from Pratt for a free re-engine to JT9D-70A engines, as soon as they were available
(JT9D-70A was certified in December 1978).
Aircraft data : L/N 242, MSN 20826, N701SW

N701SW, 10 August 1974, LHR (brand new, as delivered with JT9D-7F engines)
Image


N701SW, re-engined with JT9D-70A engines, 24 June 1978, LHR
Image

Original uploaded by Tony Hanck and Mick Bajcar, see : https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/registration/N701SW
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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747classic
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Re: So there has been a 747-100 with four GEs after all...

Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:28 am

Four 747-200 aircraft were re-engined from the P&W JT9D series to the General Electric CF6-50E(2) series.


- L/N 202 (msn 20682), the first USAF's airborne command post, switched from JT9D-7A to CF6-50E engines during the E-4A/E-4B upgrade process
- L/N 204 (msn 20683), the second USAF's airborne command post, switched from JT9D-7A to CF6-50E engines during the E-4A/E-4B upgrade process
- L/N 245 (msn 20887), a 747-228F, is one of two commercial engine conversions. Atlas Air had it switched in 1999 from JT9D-7J to CF6-50E2 engines, for optimising the Atlas 747 freighter fleet on one engine type.
- L/N 253 (msn 21048), a 747-212B(SF) was the other Atlas conversion.

The certification of the re-engine Service Bulletin (SB) from the P&W JT9D-7 to the GE CF6-50E engine was (partly)paid by the USAF.

Atlas Air used the same SB and used the CF6 pylons and derated CF6-45A2* engines from secondhand ex, ANA 747SR-81 aircraft, purchased for spare parts in 1999 (N8078H, N8078Q, and N8078M) for fleet standarization to GE CF6-50E2

* CF6-45A2 engine : Same as CF6-50E2 except for reduced ratings specified at increased flat rating ambient temperature.

L/N 245, N809MC, still powered by JT9D's. (Feb 06th 1999)

Image
See : https://www.airliners.net/photo/Atlas-A ... /2540628/L

L/N 245, N809MC, now re-engined with CF6-50E2 engines (pylons and engines are salvaged from ANA 747SR-81 aircraft.)

Image
See : https://www.airliners.net/photo/Atlas-A ... D/456054/L
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
skipness1E
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Re: So there has been a 747-100 with four GEs after all...

Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:12 am

How many other PW aircraft were re-engined to the -70A? I remember the sound being quite different.
 
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747classic
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Re: So there has been a 747-100 with four GEs after all...

Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:58 am

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
...or kind of. Up until today I always thought GEs were first installed on -200B. Was RA001 GE-powered the whole time it had the other regisgtration?

"Boeing 747-121, City of Everett, on take off from Boeing Field. The prototype has been re-registered N1352B. RA001 carried this registration number from July 1970 to April 1975. "

https://static.thisdayinaviation.com/wp ... _747-1.jpg


RA001 was registered N7470 during the 747 certification.
After the certification was completed RA001 has been re-registered to N1352B at July 01th 1970.
The aircraft was now used for testing of new 747 (sub)systems and modifications.
During 1972 RA001 was modified to the proposed USAF KC-33A tanker configuration , still with JT9D series engines installed.
See cover of Aviation Week of October 1972)
Image
Copyright Aviation Week.

RA001 was only several months during 1973 powered by the GE CF6-50 engine series, after GE/747 certification was finished it was reverted back to PW power.

RA001 was retired (for the first time), stored (KLAS) and re-registered again to N7470 at April 16 th 1975.

Image
See : https://www.airliners.net/photo/Boeing/ ... /1043180/L

RA001 became active again for 777 engine testing (Trent 890) during the nineties.
See : https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ule-22273/
And : https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... sts-27066/

Image
See : https://www.airliners.net/photo/Boeing/ ... 21/18543/L

RA001 was finally retired and preserved at the Museum of Flight in 2003.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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747classic
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Re: So there has been a 747-100 with four GEs after all...

Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:03 pm

skipness1E wrote:
How many other PW aircraft were re-engined to the -70A? I remember the sound being quite different.


No other 747 has been re-engined to the dash -70A.
Only one 747 has been re-engined from dash -70A to the dash -7Q standard.

All produced P&W JT9D-70A powered 747-200 aircraft

242/20826, 747-245F(SCD), N701SW, Seaboard World Airlines, initially delivered with dash-7F engines, later re-engined with the dash -70A.
266/20827, 747-245F(SCD), N702SW, Seaboard World Airlines, 747/ JT9D-70A certification aircraft
311/21381, 747-283B(M), LN-RNA, SAS, crashed MAD Nov 27th 1983 (leased to Avianca)
349/21725, 747-287B, LV-MLO, Aerolineas Argentinas, re-engined to JT9D-7Q configuration.
353/21641, 747-2B2B(M), 5R-MFT, Air Madagaskar
358/21575, 747-283B(M), SE-DFZ, SAS, converted to -SF (freighter) August 17th 1996
394/21764, 747-245F(SCD), N703SW, Seaboard World Airlines
396/21841, 747-245F(SCD), N704SW, Seaboard World Airlines
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
nycbjr
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Re: So there has been a 747-100 with four GEs after all...

Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:08 pm

Great information here.. this is why this board is so great!
 
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747classic
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Re: So there has been a 747-100 with four GEs after all...

Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:15 pm

Some new info emerged about RA001 :

RA001 was initially withdrawn from use on October 5, 1983. It returned to service to test the Pratt & Whitney PW 4084 engine on November 11, 1993
For that purpose Boeing leased back the aircraft from the museum of Flight in June 1993 to install the P&W engine at the No 2 position.
A year later the aircraft was used to flight test the RR Trent 800 series.

See : https://www.air-and-space.com/Boeing_Testbeds.htm

Source : Boeing 777: Jetliner for a New Century, by Philip Birtles, ISBN 0-7603-0581-1, page 21.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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747classic
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Re: So there has been a 747-100 with four GEs after all...

Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:30 am

747classic wrote:

All produced P&W JT9D-70A powered 747-200 aircraft

242/20826, 747-245F(SCD), N701SW, Seaboard World Airlines, initially delivered with dash-7F engines, later re-engined with the dash -70A.
266/20827, 747-245F(SCD), N702SW, Seaboard World Airlines, 747/ JT9D-70A certification aircraft
311/21381, 747-283B(M), LN-RNA, SAS, crashed MAD Nov 27th 1983 (leased to Avianca)
349/21725, 747-287B, LV-MLO, Aerolineas Argentinas, re-engined to JT9D-7Q configuration.
353/21641, 747-2B2B(M), 5R-MFT, Air Madagaskar
358/21575, 747-283B(M), SE-DFZ, SAS, converted to -SF (freighter) August 17th 1996
394/21764, 747-245F(SCD), N703SW, Seaboard World Airlines
396/21841, 747-245F(SCD), N704SW, Seaboard World Airlines


I missed one P&W JT9D-70A powered 747, see below :

354/21650, 747-2R7F(SCD), LX-DCV, Cargolux.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.

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