Page 1 of 1

Prince Harry's Private Jet

Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:05 pm
by intrepidflyer
There's been a lot of media noise about Prince Harry, Meghan Markle and entourage flying around by private jet - with regard to emissions.

How much difference is there between a few people flying on a small, probably new and economical private jet vs flying Business or First on a commercial airline, where they probably block tonnes of seats for privacy anyway.. ?

Realise this can't be answered technically without knowledge of what jet replaced what flight and load factors etc. But what's the general feeling here?

Re: Prince Harry's Private Jet

Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:09 pm
by GalaxyFlyer
On a per-seat comparison, there’s no comparison. The bizjet will be creating more emissions per seat, which again proves my point—no one really cares about it.

GF

Re: Prince Harry's Private Jet

Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:37 pm
by BravoOne
Have to laugh out load at this concept. The founders of Google operated a B767-200ER for their personal pleasure. The was a plaque in the entrance of the cabing telling those concerned with the environment how many trees they had planted to offset their carbon foot print. I don't recall ever seeing one of these trees anywhere.

Re: Prince Harry's Private Jet

Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:27 pm
by VSMUT
There is no comparison. Business jets are far, far worse, both in terms of economy and in price.

BravoOne wrote:
Have to laugh out load at this concept. The founders of Google operated a B767-200ER for their personal pleasure. The was a plaque in the entrance of the cabing telling those concerned with the environment how many trees they had planted to offset their carbon foot print. I don't recall ever seeing one of these trees anywhere.


Oh they do exist. I visited a project in Africa once. The primary reason you don't see so many of them, is because most of these foundations focus their plantations in the developing world, where they suffer from extreme deforestation and land is cheap. Lets face it, much of Europe is so overbuilt that there is just no space to put more forests in, and we are already pretty good at protecting our existing forests.

Norwegian caught a lot of flak not too long ago for overpromising and underdelivering on a tree planting project. The majority of those were planted in north-east India.

Re: Prince Harry's Private Jet

Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:56 pm
by BravoOne
VSMUT wrote:
There is no comparison. Business jets are far, far worse, both in terms of economy and in price.

BravoOne wrote:
Have to laugh out load at this concept. The founders of Google operated a B767-200ER for their personal pleasure. The was a plaque in the entrance of the cabing telling those concerned with the environment how many trees they had planted to offset their carbon foot print. I don't recall ever seeing one of these trees anywhere.


Oh they do exist. I visited a project in Africa once. The primary reason you don't see so many of them, is because most of these foundations focus their plantations in the developing world, where they suffer from extreme deforestation and land is cheap. Lets face it, much of Europe is so overbuilt that there is just no space to put more forests in, and we are already pretty good at protecting our existing forests.

Norwegian caught a lot of flak not too long ago for overpromising and underdelivering on a tree planting project. The majority of those were planted in north-east India.



Good point and yes the Europeans manage their forests much better than we do here in the US.

Re: Prince Harry's Private Jet

Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:26 am
by Pellegrine
I don't see the irony in someone talking about environmentalism and flying private. People have schedules to keep, security concerns, and issues of comfort. Besides all air travelers aren't flying private. So what if they're 1000 business jets plying the skies, to save what 100 A320/738 size aircraft? The carbon emissions are negligible compared to controlled burns, beef production, and autos.

Let them fly private in peace.

Re: Prince Harry's Private Jet

Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:45 am
by VSMUT
Pellegrine wrote:
So what if they're 1000 business jets plying the skies, to save what 100 A320/738 size aircraft?


They aren't saving a few hundred A320's. The airlines aren't cancelling flights just because one VIP took a business jet. Those thousands of business jets are in addition to existing flights.

Re: Prince Harry's Private Jet

Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:22 pm
by GalaxyFlyer
More like 20,000 bizjets.

Re: Prince Harry's Private Jet

Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:02 am
by Pellegrine
VSMUT wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
So what if they're 1000 business jets plying the skies, to save what 100 A320/738 size aircraft?


They aren't saving a few hundred A320's. The airlines aren't cancelling flights just because one VIP took a business jet. Those thousands of business jets are in addition to existing flights.


I'm saying if business jet travel didn't happen, airlines would obviously have to expand their fleets somewhat to accommodate increased traffic.

Re: Prince Harry's Private Jet

Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:05 am
by CosmicCruiser
BravoOne wrote:
Have to laugh out load at this concept. The founders of Google operated a B767-200ER for their personal pleasure. The was a plaque in the entrance of the cabing telling those concerned with the environment how many trees they had planted to offset their carbon foot print. I don't recall ever seeing one of these trees anywhere.

Al Gore says the same thing. He planted trees to off set his carbon footprint of his 10,000 sqft home and his private jet. I say BS!

Re: Prince Harry's Private Jet

Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:21 am
by SheikhDjibouti
intrepidflyer wrote:
There's been a lot of media noise about Prince Harry, Meghan Markle and entourage flying around by private jet - with regard to emissions.

How much difference is there between a few people flying on a small, probably new and economical private jet vs flying Business or First on a commercial airline, where they probably block tonnes of seats for privacy anyway.. ?

In some cases (not all), there will be additional seats blocked for security purposes.
And indeed other seats taken up with whatever security entourage travels with Prince Harry etc.

Tiger Woods and Lewis Hamilton might crave privacy, but you tend to get that anyway with proper First Class.
What they tend to gain from a private jet is point-to-point delivery (thus saving some fuel by not having to transit through hubs or requiring connecting flights), a fast-track through security & customs, and most of all, a schedule that suits them.

I once saw a photo in a UK newspaper showing the Queen of England (Elizabeth II) travelling on a regular train, "just like any normal passenger."
The paper even quipped about whether she qualified for an old person's railcard / discount.

What they did not show was whether the remainder of the railway carriage was completely empty, i.e. set aside for one VVIP.
Or indeed how many seats were taken up with an armed security detail, plus a Lady-in-waiting (to carry the Queen's handbag, and some small change for the coffee cart.). Plus the hordes of press photographers in the next carriage, such as the one who took the actual photo.
That would all have some impact on real seat-mile costs.

Re: Prince Harry's Private Jet

Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:34 am
by Armadillo1
SheikhDjibouti wrote:
That would all have some impact on real seat-mile costs.

in case of railroad, they just add some cars to already scheduled train.
of course it bother people on boarding.

Re: Prince Harry's Private Jet

Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:43 pm
by BravoOne
I won't name the owner, but at least one Gulfstream 650 travels with a backup Gulfstream 550 on most occasions. That seems a little excessive don't ya think?

I know AF 1 does this routinely usually with a 757 backing the 747 but that is perhaps understandable should the big boy hae a serious breakdown.

Re: Prince Harry's Private Jet

Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:47 pm
by akiss20
BravoOne wrote:
I won't name the owner, but at least one Gulfstream 650 travels with a backup Gulfstream 550 on most occasions. That seems a little excessive don't ya think?

I know AF 1 does this routinely usually with a 757 backing the 747 but that is perhaps understandable should the big boy hae a serious breakdown.


Doesn't the secondary VC-25 back up the primary one? I thought I remember that being the case but maybe I am wrong.

Re: Prince Harry's Private Jet

Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:03 pm
by VSMUT
Pellegrine wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
So what if they're 1000 business jets plying the skies, to save what 100 A320/738 size aircraft?


They aren't saving a few hundred A320's. The airlines aren't cancelling flights just because one VIP took a business jet. Those thousands of business jets are in addition to existing flights.


I'm saying if business jet travel didn't happen, airlines would obviously have to expand their fleets somewhat to accommodate increased traffic.


No they wouldn't. At the very most, airlines would go for more premium heavy configurations.

Re: Prince Harry's Private Jet

Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:39 pm
by BravoOne
akiss20 wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
I won't name the owner, but at least one Gulfstream 650 travels with a backup Gulfstream 550 on most occasions. That seems a little excessive don't ya think?

I know AF 1 does this routinely usually with a 757 backing the 747 but that is perhaps understandable should the big boy hae a serious breakdown.


Doesn't the secondary VC-25 back up the primary one? I thought I remember that being the case but maybe I am wrong.



I sources say that one of the aircraft is out of service frequently, so the 757 is more likely t be used than the 747, which makes some degree of sense.

Re: Prince Harry's Private Jet

Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:17 pm
by kalvado
VSMUT wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
VSMUT wrote:

They aren't saving a few hundred A320's. The airlines aren't cancelling flights just because one VIP took a business jet. Those thousands of business jets are in addition to existing flights.


I'm saying if business jet travel didn't happen, airlines would obviously have to expand their fleets somewhat to accommodate increased traffic.


No they wouldn't. At the very most, airlines would go for more premium heavy configurations.

and reduce Y capacity as a result, leaving some cattle behind and increasing prices for the rest. But who cares about Y class cattle?

Re: Prince Harry's Private Jet

Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:27 am
by TheF15Ace
BravoOne wrote:
akiss20 wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
I won't name the owner, but at least one Gulfstream 650 travels with a backup Gulfstream 550 on most occasions. That seems a little excessive don't ya think?

I know AF 1 does this routinely usually with a 757 backing the 747 but that is perhaps understandable should the big boy hae a serious breakdown.


Doesn't the secondary VC-25 back up the primary one? I thought I remember that being the case but maybe I am wrong.



I sources say that one of the aircraft is out of service frequently, so the 757 is more likely t be used than the 747, which makes some degree of sense.


I could be wrong but doesn't an E-4 usually tag along at least on foreign trips?

Re: Prince Harry's Private Jet

Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:01 pm
by Woodreau
BravoOne wrote:
I won't name the owner, but at least one Gulfstream 650 travels with a backup Gulfstream 550 on most occasions. That seems a little excessive don't ya think?


I’d have to say this happens more frequently than one suspects. I flew with someone that worked for an owner, and wherever they would fly, routinely a spare airplane with another crew flew empty behind them. Each member of their family had their own airplane and crew that catered to their individual travel needs.

Re: Prince Harry's Private Jet

Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:05 pm
by BravoOne
TheF15Ace wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
akiss20 wrote:

Doesn't the secondary VC-25 back up the primary one? I thought I remember that being the case but maybe I am wrong.



I sources say that one of the aircraft is out of service frequently, so the 757 is more likely t be used than the 747, which makes some degree of sense.


I could be wrong but doesn't an E-4 usually tag along at least on foreign trips?



I really don't know but it seems unlikely IMO?

Re: Prince Harry's Private Jet

Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:08 pm
by BravoOne
Woodreau wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
I won't name the owner, but at least one Gulfstream 650 travels with a backup Gulfstream 550 on most occasions. That seems a little excessive don't ya think?


I’d have to say this happens more frequently than one suspects. I flew with someone that worked for an owner, and wherever they would fly, routinely a spare airplane with another crew flew empty behind them. Each member of their family had their own airplane and crew that catered to their individual travel needs.



One guy I worked for had an early Global Express. We also had a GV, and the joke was that it was the hot spare for Global as that particular GLEX was snake bitten and very unreliable.

Re: Prince Harry's Private Jet

Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:36 am
by TheF15Ace
BravoOne wrote:
TheF15Ace wrote:
BravoOne wrote:


I sources say that one of the aircraft is out of service frequently, so the 757 is more likely t be used than the 747, which makes some degree of sense.


I could be wrong but doesn't an E-4 usually tag along at least on foreign trips?



I really don't know but it seems unlikely IMO?


I was curious about it and looked it up, while I couldn't find anything too detailed it was mentioned a few times:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_E- ... to_present
When the President travels outside of North America using a VC-25A as Air Force One, an E-4B will deploy to a second airport in the vicinity of the President's destination, to be readily available in the event of a world crisis or an emergency that renders the VC-25A unusable


https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/1 ... for-months
....to shadow the VC-25A "Air Force One" carrying the President of the United States during foreign visits.

Re: Prince Harry's Private Jet

Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:13 pm
by BravoOne
Thanks for the check.

Re: Prince Harry's Private Jet

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:19 am
by prebennorholm
akiss20 wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
I won't name the owner, but at least one Gulfstream 650 travels with a backup Gulfstream 550 on most occasions. That seems a little excessive don't ya think?

I know AF 1 does this routinely usually with a 757 backing the 747 but that is perhaps understandable should the big boy hae a serious breakdown.


Doesn't the secondary VC-25 back up the primary one? I thought I remember that being the case but maybe I am wrong.

When Clinton visited H.M. the Queen of Denmark, then he arrived on two VC-25 and three C-5. The C-5s were mostly used for various very heavy road vehicles and two helicopters. It was summer, so the Queen lived at her summer cottage 25 miles out in the countryside, therefore the helicopters were needed.