yyzmdw
Topic Author
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:40 am

77W vs A35K capacity

Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:16 pm

It's been well documented that the A35K has the same listed capacity as the 77W, in a 3-class configuration, and thus Airbus is pitching it as a 77W replacement. However, that configuration stipulates about 350 or 360 seats in 3 classes. For airlines like AF and AC that have high Y configurations of around 450 seats, with 3-4-3 Y, can the A35K match that capacity?
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1034
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: 77W vs A35K capacity

Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:19 pm

The two are the same length, with the 77W wide enough to sit 10 abreast on a normal configuration in Y, where as the A35J can only do 9, so no, it cannot match the 77W capacity.

Note the exit limit on the A35J is also 440, where as the 77W is 550.

Look at CX for example, roughly comfortable seat maps, 3 class seats 368, where as the A35J seats 344. The A350 has an extra row of J, so that could be 2 Y, which adds 14 seats, making it a rough apples to apples comparison value of 358.
 
User avatar
BoeingVista
Posts: 1998
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:54 am

Re: 77W vs A35K capacity

Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:38 am

whywhyzee wrote:
The two are the same length, with the 77W wide enough to sit 10 abreast on a normal configuration in Y, where as the A35J can only do 9, so no, it cannot match the 77W capacity.

Note the exit limit on the A35J is also 440, where as the 77W is 550.

Look at CX for example, roughly comfortable seat maps, 3 class seats 368, where as the A35J seats 344. The A350 has an extra row of J, so that could be 2 Y, which adds 14 seats, making it a rough apples to apples comparison value of 358.


I believe that the exit limit on the A350 is about to be raised to 480, also there was a proposal from Airbus to move lavs and galleys downstairs to raise seat count but as yet Airbus is not formally offering this option.
BV
 
User avatar
vhtje
Posts: 996
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:40 pm

Re: 77W vs A35K capacity

Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:51 am

whywhyzee wrote:
The two are the same length, with the 77W wide enough to sit 10 abreast on a normal configuration in Y, where as the A35J can only do 9...


So much for the A350 being an “Extra Wide Body”
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 13903
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: 77W vs A35K capacity

Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:25 am

whywhyzee wrote:
The two are the same length, with the 77W wide enough to sit 10 abreast on a normal configuration in Y, where as the A35J can only do 9, so no, it cannot match the 77W capacity.


French bee’s A350-900 have a seating configuration of 411 with a 3-4-3 economy configuration.

whywhyzee wrote:
Note the exit limit on the A35J is also 440, where as the 77W is 550.


The exit on the A350 limit depends on the doors the customer selects, it can be less than 440.

whywhyzee wrote:
Look at CX for example, roughly comfortable seat maps, 3 class seats 368, where as the A35J seats 344. The A350 has an extra row of J, so that could be 2 Y, which adds 14 seats, making it a rough apples to apples comparison value of 358.


The 40J32W296Y 77W is a relative new configuration for CX with 10 across in Y, when the A350-1000 entered service with CX it was 40J32W268Y on the 77W with 9 across compared to the 46J32W256Y on the A350-1000. The A350-1000 can fly further with a full passenger load and lifts about 8 tonnes more at maximum payload.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
Armadillo1
Posts: 475
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:14 pm

Re: 77W vs A35K capacity

Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:59 am

BoeingVista wrote:
I believe that the exit limit on the A350 is about to be raised to 480, also there was a proposal from Airbus to move lavs and galleys downstairs to raise seat count but as yet Airbus is not formally offering this option.

https://aviationweek.com/awincommercial ... stinations
zeke wrote:
French bee’s A350-900 have a seating configuration of 411 with a 3-4-3 economy configuration.
.

and A339 can have 460, but this still not so common.

so result still the same

350 lighter, can carry more load for range, but have less width for pax.
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 13106
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Re: 77W vs A35K capacity

Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:09 am

vhtje wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:
The two are the same length, with the 77W wide enough to sit 10 abreast on a normal configuration in Y, where as the A35J can only do 9...


So much for the A350 being an “Extra Wide Body”


I and many colleagues have been actively avoiding 10 abreast "normal" 777 configurations in Y for the last 5-6 years. (UA, AF, KL). Passenger satisfaction/comfort takes a hit. So it depends on your definition of normal and the airlines. I have choosen Korean, SQ, JAL and Delta 9 abreast 777 flights over other carriers for this reason. Even taking stops.

Boeing supporters and 10 abreast operators have done a lot to learn everybody this 10 abreast 777 is " normal, "new seats", the way forward. Me and many just avoid those aircraft, lots of alternatives these days.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
User avatar
TheRedBaron
Posts: 3272
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:17 am

Re: 77W vs A35K capacity

Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:31 pm

I am 5´7 and not overweight, I find the 10 abreast 777, simply a torture chamber, since it is used for more than 8 hour flights...
Id gladly pay 200 each way more just for that 2 extra inches
Best Regards

TRB
The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
 
AtomicGarden
Posts: 372
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:57 pm

Re: 77W vs A35K capacity

Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:00 am

TheRedBaron wrote:
I am 5´7 and not overweight, I find the 10 abreast 777, simply a torture chamber, since it is used for more than 8 hour flights...
Id gladly pay 200 each way more just for that 2 extra inches
Best Regards

TRB


Totally. I'm not long but I am broad shouldered and it SUCKED! people who say it is an insignificant difference are delusional
You killed a black astronaut, Cyril! That's like killing a unicorn!
 
unimproved
Posts: 107
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:14 pm

Re: 77W vs A35K capacity

Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:47 am

The 787 isn't much better with 9 abreast.

Blame the airlines, not the manufacturer. If they build a wider fuselage it will get just get another seat squashed in. Even the A330 is now suffering from this.
 
User avatar
afterburner
Posts: 1340
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:38 am

Re: 77W vs A35K capacity

Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:52 pm

unimproved wrote:
The 787 isn't much better with 9 abreast.

Blame the airlines, not the manufacturer. If they build a wider fuselage it will get just get another seat squashed in. Even the A330 is now suffering from this.

I blame the manufacturer. Almost all A330 and A350 operators have 8 and 9 abreast respectively on their economy classes. Most 777 and 787 operators have 10 and 9 respectively. Boeing gives airlines the opportunity they can't refuse: one more seat for every row.
 
patrickjp93
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:00 pm

Re: 77W vs A35K capacity

Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:21 pm

TheRedBaron wrote:
I am 5´7 and not overweight, I find the 10 abreast 777, simply a torture chamber, since it is used for more than 8 hour flights...
Id gladly pay 200 each way more just for that 2 extra inches
Best Regards

TRB

Yeah rubbing shoulders with your neighbors when trying to sleep on a 15-hour flight is...unpleasant...
 
unimproved
Posts: 107
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:14 pm

Re: 77W vs A35K capacity

Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:49 pm

afterburner wrote:
unimproved wrote:
The 787 isn't much better with 9 abreast.

Blame the airlines, not the manufacturer. If they build a wider fuselage it will get just get another seat squashed in. Even the A330 is now suffering from this.

I blame the manufacturer. Almost all A330 and A350 operators have 8 and 9 abreast respectively on their economy classes. Most 777 and 787 operators have 10 and 9 respectively. Boeing gives airlines the opportunity they can't refuse: one more seat for every row.

The first 9 & 10 abreast 330's and 350's are already popping up. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot more get "upgraded" to this config on their first D/C04 check (just like what happened to the 777).
 
User avatar
afterburner
Posts: 1340
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:38 am

Re: 77W vs A35K capacity

Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:46 am

unimproved wrote:
The first 9 & 10 abreast 330's and 350's are already popping up. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot more get "upgraded" to this config on their first D/C04 check (just like what happened to the 777).

I don't think 9 and 10 abreast in A330 and A350 respectively will be the mainstream configurations. Emirates is the pioneer of 10-abreast in a 777. Let's see whether EK will put 9 and 10 abreast on its A330neos and A350s.
 
Theseus
Posts: 240
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:35 pm

Re: 77W vs A35K capacity

Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:27 pm

unimproved wrote:
The first 9 & 10 abreast 330's and 350's are already popping up. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot more get "upgraded" to this config on their first D/C04 check (just like what happened to the 777).


Low cost airlines have used 3-3-3 configurations on A330s for a very long time, and I do not see majors moving to adopt it.
For now, the same kind of airlines are using 3-4-3 on A350s.
I hope it will not get worse (we can never be sure), but so far, the situation seems stable on the A330 and A350 side.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 10777
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: 77W vs A35K capacity

Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:45 am

Theseus wrote:
unimproved wrote:
The first 9 & 10 abreast 330's and 350's are already popping up. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot more get "upgraded" to this config on their first D/C04 check (just like what happened to the 777).


Low cost airlines have used 3-3-3 configurations on A330s for a very long time, and I do not see majors moving to adopt it.
For now, the same kind of airlines are using 3-4-3 on A350s..


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:

9-Abreast has been used by some airlines since it is in service, literally as Air Inter as the first Airline to fly it, had it (iirc), and before that, and still, airlines flies A310s in 9AB (maybe A300, but i wouldn´t know who).
On a 9AB 787 or 10AB 777 you have essentially as much seat width as on the 737 that took you to the Hub, with the CRJ wide seat you get on an 9AB A330 or 10AB A350 everyone will notice right away, so it is hard to get away with it as an airline...

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
patrickjp93
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:00 pm

Re: 77W vs A35K capacity

Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:47 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
9-Abreast has been used by some airlines since it is in service, literally as Air Inter as the first Airline to fly it, had it (iirc), and before that, and still, airlines flies A310s in 9AB (maybe A300, but i wouldn´t know who).
On a 9AB 787 or 10AB 777 you have essentially as much seat width as on the 737 that took you to the Hub, with the CRJ wide seat you get on an 9AB A330 or 10AB A350 everyone will notice right away, so it is hard to get away with it as an airline...

best regards
Thomas

???!!! Someone has clearly never made that transition, or you're very skinny. On a 737 I don't rub shoulders with the guy next to me. On a 787 or 10AB 777, I do. 0.4" is the average difference between a 737 seat and a 787 seat (17.6 vs. 17.2 on 787 vs. 17.0 on 77W). Air Canada's are 17.3" wide. Singapore purportedly uses 18" wide seats on their 787s, but I don't know if I believe that. Aisles would be unusable.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 10777
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: 77W vs A35K capacity

Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:30 pm

patrickjp93 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
9-Abreast has been used by some airlines since it is in service, literally as Air Inter as the first Airline to fly it, had it (iirc), and before that, and still, airlines flies A310s in 9AB (maybe A300, but i wouldn´t know who).
On a 9AB 787 or 10AB 777 you have essentially as much seat width as on the 737 that took you to the Hub, with the CRJ wide seat you get on an 9AB A330 or 10AB A350 everyone will notice right away, so it is hard to get away with it as an airline...

best regards
Thomas

???!!! Someone has clearly never made that transition,.


I actually don´t think i ever transferred from a 737 to a 10AB 777, usually from an F70 or E-Jet :D

But i actually do not mind the 10AB 777 all that much, surprisingly..... but 9AB A310 is one step too far. .... and i am not particularly petite with 1.83m/~100Kg (floating around that) .... i do notice the difference of course.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
Sokes
Posts: 222
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: 77W vs A35K capacity

Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:20 pm

You guys have a wrong approach to social life.

Image
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
Strato2
Posts: 432
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 3:52 pm

Re: 77W vs A35K capacity

Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:38 pm

patrickjp93 wrote:
???!!! Someone has clearly never made that transition, or you're very skinny. On a 737 I don't rub shoulders with the guy next to me. On a 787 or 10AB 777, I do. 0.4" is the average difference between a 737 seat and a 787 seat (17.6 vs. 17.2 on 787 vs. 17.0 on 77W). Air Canada's are 17.3" wide. Singapore purportedly uses 18" wide seats on their 787s, but I don't know if I believe that. Aisles would be unusable.


Luckily I've only had to take two 77W flights on AF and they were 3-4-3. It was ridiculous that the two and half hour AY A321 flight I took to CDG had an inch wider seats than the AF 77W on a over eight hour trans-Atlantic flight.
 
User avatar
DrPaul
Posts: 107
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:21 pm

Re: 77W vs A35K capacity

Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:22 pm

vhtje wrote:
So much for the A350 being an “Extra Wide Body”


Yes, I've always thought that the 'extra-wide body' slogan is, well, not exactly honest. The A350 is a bit wider than the A330 and than what Airbus had originally proposed (namely, the same width as the A330), but it's still not as wide as the 777. Perhaps it's time that misleading slogan was dropped.
 
Mrakula
Posts: 122
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:15 pm

Re: 77W vs A35K capacity

Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:35 pm

DrPaul wrote:
vhtje wrote:
So much for the A350 being an “Extra Wide Body”


Yes, I've always thought that the 'extra-wide body' slogan is, well, not exactly honest. The A350 is a bit wider than the A330 and than what Airbus had originally proposed (namely, the same width as the A330), but it's still not as wide as the 777. Perhaps it's time that misleading slogan was dropped.


A350 "extra-wide-body" is jaust marketing name to it from distinguish orignal A350. Bussiness jets are not wide as 777 by they are still more confortible! OMG
 
sabby
Posts: 331
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:11 pm

Re: 77W vs A35K capacity

Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:50 am

DrPaul wrote:
vhtje wrote:
So much for the A350 being an “Extra Wide Body”


Yes, I've always thought that the 'extra-wide body' slogan is, well, not exactly honest. The A350 is a bit wider than the A330 and than what Airbus had originally proposed (namely, the same width as the A330), but it's still not as wide as the 777. Perhaps it's time that misleading slogan was dropped.


That was a response to "Dreamliner" marketing as well as to distinguish from the original A350 (sort of A330neo). Never trust marketing gimmicks, irrespective of Brands :D
 
WIederling
Posts: 8693
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: 77W vs A35K capacity

Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:29 pm

DrPaul wrote:
vhtje wrote:
So much for the A350 being an “Extra Wide Body”


Yes, I've always thought that the 'extra-wide body' slogan is, well, not exactly honest. The A350 is a bit wider than the A330 and than what Airbus had originally proposed (namely, the same width as the A330), but it's still not as wide as the 777. Perhaps it's time that misleading slogan was dropped.


A350 is wider than A330 and moved up from the established Airbus wide body cross section.
In the Airbus portfolio "wider" is the marque property of the A350XWB.

why would/should it reference the product of another manufacturer?

Then:
What is "dream" quality about Dreamliner? A nightmare ...
Murphy is an optimist
 
User avatar
DrPaul
Posts: 107
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:21 pm

Re: 77W vs A35K capacity

Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:02 pm

WIederling wrote:
DrPaul wrote:
vhtje wrote:
So much for the A350 being an “Extra Wide Body”


Yes, I've always thought that the 'extra-wide body' slogan is, well, not exactly honest. The A350 is a bit wider than the A330 and than what Airbus had originally proposed (namely, the same width as the A330), but it's still not as wide as the 777. Perhaps it's time that misleading slogan was dropped.


A350 is wider than A330 and moved up from the established Airbus wide body cross section.
In the Airbus portfolio "wider" is the marque property of the A350XWB.

why would/should it reference the product of another manufacturer?

Then:
What is "dream" quality about Dreamliner? A nightmare ...


True, but the way the XWB bit was promoted, tagging it proudly onto the A350 name, implied that this plane was a good couple of feet wider than other wide-bodied twin-jets, and not merely a few inches wider than its predecessor and still short of its main rival. Still, I guess that 'Just A Little Bit Wider' isn't the most catchy slogan.

As for the 787, calling anything 'dream' is asking for trouble. The sarcastic rejoinder 'In your dreams...' comes to mind.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 21 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos