Transpac787
Topic Author
Posts: 1394
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:47 pm

United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:41 pm

Hey all,

I recently was given an old United 747 manual from the early 90's, and was intrigued at how varied and non-uniform the fleet was, in terms of weight & engine combinations. Most of the manual is dated 1991, just prior to United buying the 7 ex-QF 747-200's. It's those I'm most interested about, to "fill in the blanks", so to speak.

747-100:

MGTOW of 734.0 and JT9D-3A motors
N4713U-N4717U
N4719U-N4720U
N4727U-N4735U
N154UA
N157UA

MGTOW of 750.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N4718U
N4723U
N153UA
N155UA
N156UA


747-200:

MGTOW of 833.0 and JT9D-7R motors
N151UA
N152UA


747SP:

MGTOW of 696.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N140UA
N141UA
N142UA
N143UA
N144UA
N145UA

MGTOW of 702.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N146UA
N147UA
N148UA
N149UA
N150UA (lone 747SP-27, significantly different from rest of fleet)


So, a few questions, if anyone has any information or insight:

- What were the weights/engines of the 747-200's bought used from Qantas (N158UA to N165UA)??
- Any insight as to why the two subfleets of 741's?? Why some of the ex-AA birds carried -3A motors, and others carried -7A's??
- Why the two different weights of 74L's?? The manual specifically referenced that the late-delivery birds had to be significantly modified in order to get the increase, and it wasn't just a simple paper-change from Boeing for the additional weight.

Any other information that anyone would like to share would be appreciated.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 3887
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:44 pm

Transpac787 wrote:
Hey all,

I recently was given an old United 747 manual from the early 90's, and was intrigued at how varied and non-uniform the fleet was, in terms of weight & engine combinations. Most of the manual is dated 1991, just prior to United buying the 7 ex-QF 747-200's. It's those I'm most interested about, to "fill in the blanks", so to speak.

747-100:

MGTOW of 734.0 and JT9D-3A motors
N4713U-N4717U
N4719U-N4720U
N4727U-N4735U
N154UA
N157UA

MGTOW of 750.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N4718U
N4723U
N153UA
N155UA
N156UA


747-200:

MGTOW of 833.0 and JT9D-7R motors
N151UA
N152UA


747SP:

MGTOW of 696.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N140UA
N141UA
N142UA
N143UA
N144UA
N145UA

MGTOW of 702.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N146UA
N147UA
N148UA
N149UA
N150UA (lone 747SP-27, significantly different from rest of fleet)


So, a few questions, if anyone has any information or insight:

- What were the weights/engines of the 747-200's bought used from Qantas (N158UA to N165UA)??
- Any insight as to why the two subfleets of 741's?? Why some of the ex-AA birds carried -3A motors, and others carried -7A's??
- Why the two different weights of 74L's?? The manual specifically referenced that the late-delivery birds had to be significantly modified in order to get the increase, and it wasn't just a simple paper-change from Boeing for the additional weight.

Any other information that anyone would like to share would be appreciated.

all the 747-122's and 123's were upgraded to JT9D-7ACN engines and upgraded to 750K Max Gross, the Quantas birds were 800K Max Gross and the 222B's out of New York 8851,8852 were 833K Max Gross. we only had 18 -122's when the Pacific Routes were purchased and there wasn't enough lift, they found the -123's in New York that had been flying charters but were sitting derelict. They bought all 5 for $5M and poured another $50M to refurnish them which we did at the Super Bay at SFO. We also Overhauled and Refurbished all the 747SP-21's and SP-27's there as well. I was on the swing shift crew that did the M- checks on them and I was responsible for the Overnight airplanes as well on Swing shift, It was a heady time but we made it work until the 747-422's came on Board and we Retired all the 122's,123's SP's and 238's. the -222's were sold to Northwest and United Bought a few 747-451's to go along with the -422's as well. I miss those airplanes.. Lucky for me I was able to retire about the same time they retired the 747-400's ,,
 
blacksoviet
Posts: 1216
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:25 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
Transpac787 wrote:
Hey all,

I recently was given an old United 747 manual from the early 90's, and was intrigued at how varied and non-uniform the fleet was, in terms of weight & engine combinations. Most of the manual is dated 1991, just prior to United buying the 7 ex-QF 747-200's. It's those I'm most interested about, to "fill in the blanks", so to speak.

747-100:

MGTOW of 734.0 and JT9D-3A motors
N4713U-N4717U
N4719U-N4720U
N4727U-N4735U
N154UA
N157UA

MGTOW of 750.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N4718U
N4723U
N153UA
N155UA
N156UA


747-200:

MGTOW of 833.0 and JT9D-7R motors
N151UA
N152UA


747SP:

MGTOW of 696.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N140UA
N141UA
N142UA
N143UA
N144UA
N145UA

MGTOW of 702.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N146UA
N147UA
N148UA
N149UA
N150UA (lone 747SP-27, significantly different from rest of fleet)


So, a few questions, if anyone has any information or insight:

- What were the weights/engines of the 747-200's bought used from Qantas (N158UA to N165UA)??
- Any insight as to why the two subfleets of 741's?? Why some of the ex-AA birds carried -3A motors, and others carried -7A's??
- Why the two different weights of 74L's?? The manual specifically referenced that the late-delivery birds had to be significantly modified in order to get the increase, and it wasn't just a simple paper-change from Boeing for the additional weight.

Any other information that anyone would like to share would be appreciated.

all the 747-122's and 123's were upgraded to JT9D-7ACN engines and upgraded to 750K Max Gross, the Quantas birds were 800K Max Gross and the 222B's out of New York 8851,8852 were 833K Max Gross. we only had 18 -122's when the Pacific Routes were purchased and there wasn't enough lift, they found the -123's in New York that had been flying charters but were sitting derelict. They bought all 5 for $5M and poured another $50M to refurnish them which we did at the Super Bay at SFO. We also Overhauled and Refurbished all the 747SP-21's and SP-27's there as well. I was on the swing shift crew that did the M- checks on them and I was responsible for the Overnight airplanes as well on Swing shift, It was a heady time but we made it work until the 747-422's came on Board and we Retired all the 122's,123's SP's and 238's. the -222's were sold to Northwest and United Bought a few 747-451's to go along with the -422's as well. I miss those airplanes.. Lucky for me I was able to retire about the same time they retired the 747-400's ,,

Did the 747-222Bs have more range than the 747-SP27?

Were the SPs three-class aircraft?
 
Transpac787
Topic Author
Posts: 1394
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:47 pm

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:41 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
Did the 747-222Bs have more range than the 747-SP27?

Were the SPs three-class aircraft?


That's never an easy question to answer with a simple black & white "yes" or "no". Is it range with max payload, range with max fuel, range with full cabin & bags, but no freight?? Etc etc.

N151UA and N152UA carried unique, premium-heavy cabin configurations used only for JFK-NRT, different from the other 747-200's.

747-200 (151 to 152): 35F/128C/136Y
747SP (140 to 149): 18F/62C/164Y

Assuming every seat is full on both planes and you can depart at MGTOW, the payload/range curves give you the approximate still-air range:

747-200: 5900nm / 10950km
747SP: 6200nm / 11500km
 
timz
Posts: 6568
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:57 pm

In the 2001-02 JP, the -238Bs are all 800000 lb with JT9D-7Js.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 3887
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:07 am

blacksoviet wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
Transpac787 wrote:
Hey all,

I recently was given an old United 747 manual from the early 90's, and was intrigued at how varied and non-uniform the fleet was, in terms of weight & engine combinations. Most of the manual is dated 1991, just prior to United buying the 7 ex-QF 747-200's. It's those I'm most interested about, to "fill in the blanks", so to speak.

747-100:

MGTOW of 734.0 and JT9D-3A motors
N4713U-N4717U
N4719U-N4720U
N4727U-N4735U
N154UA
N157UA

MGTOW of 750.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N4718U
N4723U
N153UA
N155UA
N156UA


747-200:

MGTOW of 833.0 and JT9D-7R motors
N151UA
N152UA


747SP:

MGTOW of 696.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N140UA
N141UA
N142UA
N143UA
N144UA
N145UA

MGTOW of 702.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N146UA
N147UA
N148UA
N149UA
N150UA (lone 747SP-27, significantly different from rest of fleet)


So, a few questions, if anyone has any information or insight:

- What were the weights/engines of the 747-200's bought used from Qantas (N158UA to N165UA)??
- Any insight as to why the two subfleets of 741's?? Why some of the ex-AA birds carried -3A motors, and others carried -7A's??
- Why the two different weights of 74L's?? The manual specifically referenced that the late-delivery birds had to be significantly modified in order to get the increase, and it wasn't just a simple paper-change from Boeing for the additional weight.

Any other information that anyone would like to share would be appreciated.

all the 747-122's and 123's were upgraded to JT9D-7ACN engines and upgraded to 750K Max Gross, the Quantas birds were 800K Max Gross and the 222B's out of New York 8851,8852 were 833K Max Gross. we only had 18 -122's when the Pacific Routes were purchased and there wasn't enough lift, they found the -123's in New York that had been flying charters but were sitting derelict. They bought all 5 for $5M and poured another $50M to refurnish them which we did at the Super Bay at SFO. We also Overhauled and Refurbished all the 747SP-21's and SP-27's there as well. I was on the swing shift crew that did the M- checks on them and I was responsible for the Overnight airplanes as well on Swing shift, It was a heady time but we an ungodymade it work until the 747-422's came on Board and we Retired all the 122's,123's SP's and 238's. the -222's were sold to Northwest and United Bought a few 747-451's to go along with the -422's as well. I miss those airplanes.. Lucky for me I was able to retire about the same time they retired the 747-400's ,,

Did the 747-222Bs have more range than the 747-SP27?

Were the SPs three-class aircraft?

the -222B's had the same range as the SP-21's and SP-27's But was a full sized airplane at 833K max Gross all the international 747's were 3 class and I especially liked the L1011-500's they were an Ungodly Pitch between the seats of 48" You couldn't be seated in your seat and touch the seat back in the row in front of you in First Class.
Most of the time I flew them Inter Asian when I went to the Far East/ Back then I was single and Loved to go to Honk Kong and Seoul to have my dress clothes Tailor made..
 
blacksoviet
Posts: 1216
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:07 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
Transpac787 wrote:
Hey all,

I recently was given an old United 747 manual from the early 90's, and was intrigued at how varied and non-uniform the fleet was, in terms of weight & engine combinations. Most of the manual is dated 1991, just prior to United buying the 7 ex-QF 747-200's. It's those I'm most interested about, to "fill in the blanks", so to speak.

747-100:

MGTOW of 734.0 and JT9D-3A motors
N4713U-N4717U
N4719U-N4720U
N4727U-N4735U
N154UA
N157UA

MGTOW of 750.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N4718U
N4723U
N153UA
N155UA
N156UA


747-200:

MGTOW of 833.0 and JT9D-7R motors
N151UA
N152UA


747SP:

MGTOW of 696.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N140UA
N141UA
N142UA
N143UA
N144UA
N145UA

MGTOW of 702.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N146UA
N147UA
N148UA
N149UA
N150UA (lone 747SP-27, significantly different from rest of fleet)


So, a few questions, if anyone has any information or insight:

- What were the weights/engines of the 747-200's bought used from Qantas (N158UA to N165UA)??
- Any insight as to why the two subfleets of 741's?? Why some of the ex-AA birds carried -3A motors, and others carried -7A's??
- Why the two different weights of 74L's?? The manual specifically referenced that the late-delivery birds had to be significantly modified in order to get the increase, and it wasn't just a simple paper-change from Boeing for the additional weight.

Any other information that anyone would like to share would be appreciated.

all the 747-122's and 123's were upgraded to JT9D-7ACN engines and upgraded to 750K Max Gross, the Quantas birds were 800K Max Gross and the 222B's out of New York 8851,8852 were 833K Max Gross. we only had 18 -122's when the Pacific Routes were purchased and there wasn't enough lift, they found the -123's in New York that had been flying charters but were sitting derelict. They bought all 5 for $5M and poured another $50M to refurnish them which we did at the Super Bay at SFO. We also Overhauled and Refurbished all the 747SP-21's and SP-27's there as well. I was on the swing shift crew that did the M- checks on them and I was responsible for the Overnight airplanes as well on Swing shift, It was a heady time but we made it work until the 747-422's came on Board and we Retired all the 122's,123's SP's and 238's. the -222's were sold to Northwest and United Bought a few 747-451's to go along with the -422's as well. I miss those airplanes.. Lucky for me I was able to retire about the same time they retired the 747-400's ,,

How long were the 747-123s sitting derelict in New York for?
 
blacksoviet
Posts: 1216
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:37 pm

United bought a 747-123 from Iran Air in 1987 (N157UA). I am surprised Iran Air sold it. I thought they like to hold on to every plane they can get until the very end.
 
User avatar
747classic
Posts: 2644
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:13 am

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:44 am

blacksoviet wrote:
United bought a 747-123 from Iran Air in 1987 (N157UA). I am surprised Iran Air sold it. I thought they like to hold on to every plane they can get until the very end.


L/N 79, MSN 20106 was never owned by Iran Air.
During August 1987 it was only sub-leased from Cargolux to Iran Air for a short period with registration LX-MCV.
Cargolux leased the aircraft from Citicorp Leasing.

See : https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... s/WKKLc6p2
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 3887
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:32 am

blacksoviet wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
Transpac787 wrote:
Hey all,

I recently was given an old United 747 manual from the early 90's, and was intrigued at how varied and non-uniform the fleet was, in terms of weight & engine combinations. Most of the manual is dated 1991, just prior to United buying the 7 ex-QF 747-200's. It's those I'm most interested about, to "fill in the blanks", so to speak.

747-100:

MGTOW of 734.0 and JT9D-3A motors
N4713U-N4717U
N4719U-N4720U
N4727U-N4735U
N154UA
N157UA

MGTOW of 750.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N4718U
N4723U
N153UA
N155UA
N156UA


747-200:

MGTOW of 833.0 and JT9D-7R motors
N151UA
N152UA


747SP:

MGTOW of 696.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N140UA
N141UA
N142UA
N143UA
N144UA
N145UA

MGTOW of 702.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N146UA
N147UA
N148UA
N149UA
N150UA (lone 747SP-27, significantly different from rest of fleet)


So, a few questions, if anyone has any information or insight:

- What were the weights/engines of the 747-200's bought used from Qantas (N158UA to N165UA)??
- Any insight as to why the two subfleets of 741's?? Why some of the ex-AA birds carried -3A motors, and others carried -7A's??
- Why the two different weights of 74L's?? The manual specifically referenced that the late-delivery birds had to be significantly modified in order to get the increase, and it wasn't just a simple paper-change from Boeing for the additional weight.

Any other information that anyone would like to share would be appreciated.

all the 747-122's and 123's were upgraded to JT9D-7ACN engines and upgraded to 750K Max Gross, the Quantas birds were 800K Max Gross and the 222B's out of New York 8851,8852 were 833K Max Gross. we only had 18 -122's when the Pacific Routes were purchased and there wasn't enough lift, they found the -123's in New York that had been flying charters but were sitting derelict. They bought all 5 for $5M and poured another $50M to refurnish them which we did at the Super Bay at SFO. We also Overhauled and Refurbished all the 747SP-21's and SP-27's there as well. I was on the swing shift crew that did the M- checks on them and I was responsible for the Overnight airplanes as well on Swing shift, It was a heady time but we made it work until the 747-422's came on Board and we Retired all the 122's,123's SP's and 238's. the -222's were sold to Northwest and United Bought a few 747-451's to go along with the -422's as well. I miss those airplanes.. Lucky for me I was able to retire about the same time they retired the 747-400's ,,

How long were the 747-123s sitting derelict in New York for?[/quoted in the engine That? I can't tell you, I just don't know. What I do know is some of them were flown by Overseas National. But they were pretty dicey when we got them to SFO for their Overhauls.
My old crews assisted in removing the engines to get them overhauled. The Base (SFOOV) did the rest.
i
 
User avatar
747classic
Posts: 2644
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:13 am

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:03 am

blacksoviet wrote:
How long were the 747-123s sitting derelict in New York for?


All 747-123 aircraft bought by United in 1987, were approx 3-4 years in possession of Citicorp leasing and frequently (short term) leased to several airlines.

Citicorp possession :
N153UA, 27/02/84 until registered by United at 15/01/88
N154UA, 20/04/84 until registered by United at 05/10/87
N155UA, 03/04/84 until registered by United at 01/09/87
N156UA, 07/06/84 until registered by United at 30/08/87
N157UA, 30/05/84 until registered by United at 08/10/87

See : https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Citicorp-Ic
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
User avatar
Ruddman
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:02 pm

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:16 pm

Surprised all those 741’s were kept with the -3A’s when an ‘easy’ conversion was available well before that. Or is that all the original frames and engine combinations? Airfleets lists all -100’s with the -7A’s.

Also how many -100’s had the 750,000 gross weight limit rather then the 734,000 lb limit?
 
Transpac787
Topic Author
Posts: 1394
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:47 pm

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:04 am

Ruddman wrote:
Surprised all those 741’s were kept with the -3A’s when an ‘easy’ conversion was available well before that. Or is that all the original frames and engine combinations? Airfleets lists all -100’s with the -7A’s.

Also how many -100’s had the 750,000 gross weight limit rather then the 734,000 lb limit?


The original post names the exact tail numbers that had the -3A motors and 734.0 MGTOW. I'd have to go back into the books, but they had revision dates of either 1990 or 1991. So, at the time of the revision of the POH: 18x ships had -3A motors and 734.0, 5x ships at -7A motors and 750.0

Reply 1 says all 747-100's were later upgraded to have the -7A motors and 750.0 MGTOW.
 
User avatar
Ruddman
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:02 pm

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:13 pm

Ok thanks. Appreciate it.

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