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Transpac787
Topic Author
Posts: 1421
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:47 pm

United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:41 pm

Hey all,

I recently was given an old United 747 manual from the early 90's, and was intrigued at how varied and non-uniform the fleet was, in terms of weight & engine combinations. Most of the manual is dated 1991, just prior to United buying the 7 ex-QF 747-200's. It's those I'm most interested about, to "fill in the blanks", so to speak.

747-100:

MGTOW of 734.0 and JT9D-3A motors
N4713U-N4717U
N4719U-N4720U
N4727U-N4735U
N154UA
N157UA

MGTOW of 750.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N4718U
N4723U
N153UA
N155UA
N156UA


747-200:

MGTOW of 833.0 and JT9D-7R motors
N151UA
N152UA


747SP:

MGTOW of 696.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N140UA
N141UA
N142UA
N143UA
N144UA
N145UA

MGTOW of 702.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N146UA
N147UA
N148UA
N149UA
N150UA (lone 747SP-27, significantly different from rest of fleet)


So, a few questions, if anyone has any information or insight:

- What were the weights/engines of the 747-200's bought used from Qantas (N158UA to N165UA)??
- Any insight as to why the two subfleets of 741's?? Why some of the ex-AA birds carried -3A motors, and others carried -7A's??
- Why the two different weights of 74L's?? The manual specifically referenced that the late-delivery birds had to be significantly modified in order to get the increase, and it wasn't just a simple paper-change from Boeing for the additional weight.

Any other information that anyone would like to share would be appreciated.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 5089
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:44 pm

Transpac787 wrote:
Hey all,

I recently was given an old United 747 manual from the early 90's, and was intrigued at how varied and non-uniform the fleet was, in terms of weight & engine combinations. Most of the manual is dated 1991, just prior to United buying the 7 ex-QF 747-200's. It's those I'm most interested about, to "fill in the blanks", so to speak.

747-100:

MGTOW of 734.0 and JT9D-3A motors
N4713U-N4717U
N4719U-N4720U
N4727U-N4735U
N154UA
N157UA

MGTOW of 750.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N4718U
N4723U
N153UA
N155UA
N156UA


747-200:

MGTOW of 833.0 and JT9D-7R motors
N151UA
N152UA


747SP:

MGTOW of 696.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N140UA
N141UA
N142UA
N143UA
N144UA
N145UA

MGTOW of 702.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N146UA
N147UA
N148UA
N149UA
N150UA (lone 747SP-27, significantly different from rest of fleet)


So, a few questions, if anyone has any information or insight:

- What were the weights/engines of the 747-200's bought used from Qantas (N158UA to N165UA)??
- Any insight as to why the two subfleets of 741's?? Why some of the ex-AA birds carried -3A motors, and others carried -7A's??
- Why the two different weights of 74L's?? The manual specifically referenced that the late-delivery birds had to be significantly modified in order to get the increase, and it wasn't just a simple paper-change from Boeing for the additional weight.

Any other information that anyone would like to share would be appreciated.

all the 747-122's and 123's were upgraded to JT9D-7ACN engines and upgraded to 750K Max Gross, the Quantas birds were 800K Max Gross and the 222B's out of New York 8851,8852 were 833K Max Gross. we only had 18 -122's when the Pacific Routes were purchased and there wasn't enough lift, they found the -123's in New York that had been flying charters but were sitting derelict. They bought all 5 for $5M and poured another $50M to refurnish them which we did at the Super Bay at SFO. We also Overhauled and Refurbished all the 747SP-21's and SP-27's there as well. I was on the swing shift crew that did the M- checks on them and I was responsible for the Overnight airplanes as well on Swing shift, It was a heady time but we made it work until the 747-422's came on Board and we Retired all the 122's,123's SP's and 238's. the -222's were sold to Northwest and United Bought a few 747-451's to go along with the -422's as well. I miss those airplanes.. Lucky for me I was able to retire about the same time they retired the 747-400's ,,
 
blacksoviet
Posts: 1754
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:25 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
Transpac787 wrote:
Hey all,

I recently was given an old United 747 manual from the early 90's, and was intrigued at how varied and non-uniform the fleet was, in terms of weight & engine combinations. Most of the manual is dated 1991, just prior to United buying the 7 ex-QF 747-200's. It's those I'm most interested about, to "fill in the blanks", so to speak.

747-100:

MGTOW of 734.0 and JT9D-3A motors
N4713U-N4717U
N4719U-N4720U
N4727U-N4735U
N154UA
N157UA

MGTOW of 750.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N4718U
N4723U
N153UA
N155UA
N156UA


747-200:

MGTOW of 833.0 and JT9D-7R motors
N151UA
N152UA


747SP:

MGTOW of 696.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N140UA
N141UA
N142UA
N143UA
N144UA
N145UA

MGTOW of 702.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N146UA
N147UA
N148UA
N149UA
N150UA (lone 747SP-27, significantly different from rest of fleet)


So, a few questions, if anyone has any information or insight:

- What were the weights/engines of the 747-200's bought used from Qantas (N158UA to N165UA)??
- Any insight as to why the two subfleets of 741's?? Why some of the ex-AA birds carried -3A motors, and others carried -7A's??
- Why the two different weights of 74L's?? The manual specifically referenced that the late-delivery birds had to be significantly modified in order to get the increase, and it wasn't just a simple paper-change from Boeing for the additional weight.

Any other information that anyone would like to share would be appreciated.

all the 747-122's and 123's were upgraded to JT9D-7ACN engines and upgraded to 750K Max Gross, the Quantas birds were 800K Max Gross and the 222B's out of New York 8851,8852 were 833K Max Gross. we only had 18 -122's when the Pacific Routes were purchased and there wasn't enough lift, they found the -123's in New York that had been flying charters but were sitting derelict. They bought all 5 for $5M and poured another $50M to refurnish them which we did at the Super Bay at SFO. We also Overhauled and Refurbished all the 747SP-21's and SP-27's there as well. I was on the swing shift crew that did the M- checks on them and I was responsible for the Overnight airplanes as well on Swing shift, It was a heady time but we made it work until the 747-422's came on Board and we Retired all the 122's,123's SP's and 238's. the -222's were sold to Northwest and United Bought a few 747-451's to go along with the -422's as well. I miss those airplanes.. Lucky for me I was able to retire about the same time they retired the 747-400's ,,

Did the 747-222Bs have more range than the 747-SP27?

Were the SPs three-class aircraft?
 
Transpac787
Topic Author
Posts: 1421
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:47 pm

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:41 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
Did the 747-222Bs have more range than the 747-SP27?

Were the SPs three-class aircraft?


That's never an easy question to answer with a simple black & white "yes" or "no". Is it range with max payload, range with max fuel, range with full cabin & bags, but no freight?? Etc etc.

N151UA and N152UA carried unique, premium-heavy cabin configurations used only for JFK-NRT, different from the other 747-200's.

747-200 (151 to 152): 35F/128C/136Y
747SP (140 to 149): 18F/62C/164Y

Assuming every seat is full on both planes and you can depart at MGTOW, the payload/range curves give you the approximate still-air range:

747-200: 5900nm / 10950km
747SP: 6200nm / 11500km
 
timz
Posts: 6580
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:57 pm

In the 2001-02 JP, the -238Bs are all 800000 lb with JT9D-7Js.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 5089
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:07 am

blacksoviet wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
Transpac787 wrote:
Hey all,

I recently was given an old United 747 manual from the early 90's, and was intrigued at how varied and non-uniform the fleet was, in terms of weight & engine combinations. Most of the manual is dated 1991, just prior to United buying the 7 ex-QF 747-200's. It's those I'm most interested about, to "fill in the blanks", so to speak.

747-100:

MGTOW of 734.0 and JT9D-3A motors
N4713U-N4717U
N4719U-N4720U
N4727U-N4735U
N154UA
N157UA

MGTOW of 750.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N4718U
N4723U
N153UA
N155UA
N156UA


747-200:

MGTOW of 833.0 and JT9D-7R motors
N151UA
N152UA


747SP:

MGTOW of 696.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N140UA
N141UA
N142UA
N143UA
N144UA
N145UA

MGTOW of 702.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N146UA
N147UA
N148UA
N149UA
N150UA (lone 747SP-27, significantly different from rest of fleet)


So, a few questions, if anyone has any information or insight:

- What were the weights/engines of the 747-200's bought used from Qantas (N158UA to N165UA)??
- Any insight as to why the two subfleets of 741's?? Why some of the ex-AA birds carried -3A motors, and others carried -7A's??
- Why the two different weights of 74L's?? The manual specifically referenced that the late-delivery birds had to be significantly modified in order to get the increase, and it wasn't just a simple paper-change from Boeing for the additional weight.

Any other information that anyone would like to share would be appreciated.

all the 747-122's and 123's were upgraded to JT9D-7ACN engines and upgraded to 750K Max Gross, the Quantas birds were 800K Max Gross and the 222B's out of New York 8851,8852 were 833K Max Gross. we only had 18 -122's when the Pacific Routes were purchased and there wasn't enough lift, they found the -123's in New York that had been flying charters but were sitting derelict. They bought all 5 for $5M and poured another $50M to refurnish them which we did at the Super Bay at SFO. We also Overhauled and Refurbished all the 747SP-21's and SP-27's there as well. I was on the swing shift crew that did the M- checks on them and I was responsible for the Overnight airplanes as well on Swing shift, It was a heady time but we an ungodymade it work until the 747-422's came on Board and we Retired all the 122's,123's SP's and 238's. the -222's were sold to Northwest and United Bought a few 747-451's to go along with the -422's as well. I miss those airplanes.. Lucky for me I was able to retire about the same time they retired the 747-400's ,,

Did the 747-222Bs have more range than the 747-SP27?

Were the SPs three-class aircraft?

the -222B's had the same range as the SP-21's and SP-27's But was a full sized airplane at 833K max Gross all the international 747's were 3 class and I especially liked the L1011-500's they were an Ungodly Pitch between the seats of 48" You couldn't be seated in your seat and touch the seat back in the row in front of you in First Class.
Most of the time I flew them Inter Asian when I went to the Far East/ Back then I was single and Loved to go to Honk Kong and Seoul to have my dress clothes Tailor made..
 
blacksoviet
Posts: 1754
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:07 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
Transpac787 wrote:
Hey all,

I recently was given an old United 747 manual from the early 90's, and was intrigued at how varied and non-uniform the fleet was, in terms of weight & engine combinations. Most of the manual is dated 1991, just prior to United buying the 7 ex-QF 747-200's. It's those I'm most interested about, to "fill in the blanks", so to speak.

747-100:

MGTOW of 734.0 and JT9D-3A motors
N4713U-N4717U
N4719U-N4720U
N4727U-N4735U
N154UA
N157UA

MGTOW of 750.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N4718U
N4723U
N153UA
N155UA
N156UA


747-200:

MGTOW of 833.0 and JT9D-7R motors
N151UA
N152UA


747SP:

MGTOW of 696.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N140UA
N141UA
N142UA
N143UA
N144UA
N145UA

MGTOW of 702.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N146UA
N147UA
N148UA
N149UA
N150UA (lone 747SP-27, significantly different from rest of fleet)


So, a few questions, if anyone has any information or insight:

- What were the weights/engines of the 747-200's bought used from Qantas (N158UA to N165UA)??
- Any insight as to why the two subfleets of 741's?? Why some of the ex-AA birds carried -3A motors, and others carried -7A's??
- Why the two different weights of 74L's?? The manual specifically referenced that the late-delivery birds had to be significantly modified in order to get the increase, and it wasn't just a simple paper-change from Boeing for the additional weight.

Any other information that anyone would like to share would be appreciated.

all the 747-122's and 123's were upgraded to JT9D-7ACN engines and upgraded to 750K Max Gross, the Quantas birds were 800K Max Gross and the 222B's out of New York 8851,8852 were 833K Max Gross. we only had 18 -122's when the Pacific Routes were purchased and there wasn't enough lift, they found the -123's in New York that had been flying charters but were sitting derelict. They bought all 5 for $5M and poured another $50M to refurnish them which we did at the Super Bay at SFO. We also Overhauled and Refurbished all the 747SP-21's and SP-27's there as well. I was on the swing shift crew that did the M- checks on them and I was responsible for the Overnight airplanes as well on Swing shift, It was a heady time but we made it work until the 747-422's came on Board and we Retired all the 122's,123's SP's and 238's. the -222's were sold to Northwest and United Bought a few 747-451's to go along with the -422's as well. I miss those airplanes.. Lucky for me I was able to retire about the same time they retired the 747-400's ,,

How long were the 747-123s sitting derelict in New York for?
 
blacksoviet
Posts: 1754
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:37 pm

United bought a 747-123 from Iran Air in 1987 (N157UA). I am surprised Iran Air sold it. I thought they like to hold on to every plane they can get until the very end.
 
User avatar
747classic
Posts: 3329
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:13 am

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:44 am

blacksoviet wrote:
United bought a 747-123 from Iran Air in 1987 (N157UA). I am surprised Iran Air sold it. I thought they like to hold on to every plane they can get until the very end.


L/N 79, MSN 20106 was never owned by Iran Air.
During August 1987 it was only sub-leased from Cargolux to Iran Air for a short period with registration LX-MCV.
Cargolux leased the aircraft from Citicorp Leasing.

See : https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... s/WKKLc6p2
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 5089
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:32 am

blacksoviet wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
Transpac787 wrote:
Hey all,

I recently was given an old United 747 manual from the early 90's, and was intrigued at how varied and non-uniform the fleet was, in terms of weight & engine combinations. Most of the manual is dated 1991, just prior to United buying the 7 ex-QF 747-200's. It's those I'm most interested about, to "fill in the blanks", so to speak.

747-100:

MGTOW of 734.0 and JT9D-3A motors
N4713U-N4717U
N4719U-N4720U
N4727U-N4735U
N154UA
N157UA

MGTOW of 750.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N4718U
N4723U
N153UA
N155UA
N156UA


747-200:

MGTOW of 833.0 and JT9D-7R motors
N151UA
N152UA


747SP:

MGTOW of 696.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N140UA
N141UA
N142UA
N143UA
N144UA
N145UA

MGTOW of 702.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N146UA
N147UA
N148UA
N149UA
N150UA (lone 747SP-27, significantly different from rest of fleet)


So, a few questions, if anyone has any information or insight:

- What were the weights/engines of the 747-200's bought used from Qantas (N158UA to N165UA)??
- Any insight as to why the two subfleets of 741's?? Why some of the ex-AA birds carried -3A motors, and others carried -7A's??
- Why the two different weights of 74L's?? The manual specifically referenced that the late-delivery birds had to be significantly modified in order to get the increase, and it wasn't just a simple paper-change from Boeing for the additional weight.

Any other information that anyone would like to share would be appreciated.

all the 747-122's and 123's were upgraded to JT9D-7ACN engines and upgraded to 750K Max Gross, the Quantas birds were 800K Max Gross and the 222B's out of New York 8851,8852 were 833K Max Gross. we only had 18 -122's when the Pacific Routes were purchased and there wasn't enough lift, they found the -123's in New York that had been flying charters but were sitting derelict. They bought all 5 for $5M and poured another $50M to refurnish them which we did at the Super Bay at SFO. We also Overhauled and Refurbished all the 747SP-21's and SP-27's there as well. I was on the swing shift crew that did the M- checks on them and I was responsible for the Overnight airplanes as well on Swing shift, It was a heady time but we made it work until the 747-422's came on Board and we Retired all the 122's,123's SP's and 238's. the -222's were sold to Northwest and United Bought a few 747-451's to go along with the -422's as well. I miss those airplanes.. Lucky for me I was able to retire about the same time they retired the 747-400's ,,

How long were the 747-123s sitting derelict in New York for?[/quoted in the engine That? I can't tell you, I just don't know. What I do know is some of them were flown by Overseas National. But they were pretty dicey when we got them to SFO for their Overhauls.
My old crews assisted in removing the engines to get them overhauled. The Base (SFOOV) did the rest.
i
 
User avatar
747classic
Posts: 3329
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:13 am

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:03 am

blacksoviet wrote:
How long were the 747-123s sitting derelict in New York for?


All 747-123 aircraft bought by United in 1987, were approx 3-4 years in possession of Citicorp leasing and frequently (short term) leased to several airlines.

Citicorp possession :
N153UA, 27/02/84 until registered by United at 15/01/88
N154UA, 20/04/84 until registered by United at 05/10/87
N155UA, 03/04/84 until registered by United at 01/09/87
N156UA, 07/06/84 until registered by United at 30/08/87
N157UA, 30/05/84 until registered by United at 08/10/87

See : https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Citicorp-Ic
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
User avatar
Ruddman
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:02 pm

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:16 pm

Surprised all those 741’s were kept with the -3A’s when an ‘easy’ conversion was available well before that. Or is that all the original frames and engine combinations? Airfleets lists all -100’s with the -7A’s.

Also how many -100’s had the 750,000 gross weight limit rather then the 734,000 lb limit?
 
Transpac787
Topic Author
Posts: 1421
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:47 pm

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:04 am

Ruddman wrote:
Surprised all those 741’s were kept with the -3A’s when an ‘easy’ conversion was available well before that. Or is that all the original frames and engine combinations? Airfleets lists all -100’s with the -7A’s.

Also how many -100’s had the 750,000 gross weight limit rather then the 734,000 lb limit?


The original post names the exact tail numbers that had the -3A motors and 734.0 MGTOW. I'd have to go back into the books, but they had revision dates of either 1990 or 1991. So, at the time of the revision of the POH: 18x ships had -3A motors and 734.0, 5x ships at -7A motors and 750.0

Reply 1 says all 747-100's were later upgraded to have the -7A motors and 750.0 MGTOW.
 
User avatar
Ruddman
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:02 pm

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:13 pm

Ok thanks. Appreciate it.
 
User avatar
Ruddman
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:02 pm

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:48 pm

Also did all the QANTAS -200’s all have the -7J motors when they arrived? Or did they have other variants in them as well?
 
blacksoviet
Posts: 1754
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:12 pm

Why weren't the 747SPs upgraded with Pratt & Whitney JT9D-7R4G2 engines?
 
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DL_Mech
Posts: 2537
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 7:48 am

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:28 am

747classic wrote:
All 747-123 aircraft bought by United in 1987, were approx 3-4 years in possession of Citicorp leasing and frequently (short term) leased to several airlines.



I've told this story before, but when UA was changing their livery to Battleship they contracted DL to paint several 747s. When the Saul Bass livery was stripped off of one of these 747-123s there was "747 Astrojet" etched into the nose, Iran Air script above the aft windows and "Braniff International" etched across the upper fuselage. Some days you wish you brought a camera to work.
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
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747classic
Posts: 3329
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:13 am

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:53 am

blacksoviet wrote:
Why weren't the 747SPs upgraded with Pratt & Whitney JT9D-7R4G2 engines?


The 747SP / JT9D-7R4G2 combination has never been certified.

The following engines are certified at the 747SP :

- Pratt and Whitney JT9D-3, JT9D-3A, JT9D-7, JT9D-7A, JT9D-7F, JT9D-7J
- Rolls Royce RB211-524B2-19, RB211-524C2-19, RB211-524D4-19, RB211-524D4-39.

See page 6/77 : http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guida ... _Rev60.pdf
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
User avatar
Ruddman
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:02 pm

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:29 am

Ruddman wrote:
Also did all the QANTAS -200’s all have the -7J motors when they arrived? Or did they have other variants in them as well?



I hate being up old threads....but....an Australian site in Australian airlines and fleet show that all QF-238’s ( before those ordered with RB211’s) had the -7F, not -7J.

Strange,
 
strfyr51
Posts: 5089
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:57 am

Transpac787 wrote:
Hey all,

I recently was given an old United 747 manual from the early 90's, and was intrigued at how varied and non-uniform the fleet was, in terms of weight & engine combinations. Most of the manual is dated 1991, just prior to United buying the 7 ex-QF 747-200's. It's those I'm most interested about, to "fill in the blanks", so to speak.

747-100:

MGTOW of 734.0 and JT9D-3A motors
N4713U-N4717U
N4719U-N4720U
N4727U-N4735U
N154UA
N157UA

MGTOW of 750.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N4718U
N4723U
N153UA
N155UA
N156UA


747-200:

MGTOW of 833.0 and JT9D-7R motors
N151UA
N152UA


747SP:

MGTOW of 696.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N140UA
N141UA
N142UA
N143UA
N144UA
N145UA

MGTOW of 702.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N146UA
N147UA
N148UA
N149UA
N150UA (lone 747SP-27, significantly different from rest of fleet)


So, a few questions, if anyone has any information or insight:

- What were the weights/engines of the 747-200's bought used from Qantas (N158UA to N165UA)??
- Any insight as to why the two subfleets of 741's?? Why some of the ex-AA birds carried -3A motors, and others carried -7A's??
- Why the two different weights of 74L's?? The manual specifically referenced that the late-delivery birds had to be significantly modified in order to get the increase, and it wasn't just a simple paper-change from Boeing for the additional weight.

Any other information that anyone would like to share would be appreciated.

all the 747-122's and 123's all eventually flew the JT9D-7ACN engine which we removed the turbine reversers and upgraded the core engines. The two -222B 8851 .8852 were delivered brand new from the factory as 833.000 Max GWT for the JFK-NRT market and primarily flew those flights. The L1011-500's Primarily flew Intra Asian routes ,
And the 8 SP-21's and the 2 SP-27's flew SFO and LAX to Asia and SFO/LAX- to SYD/ AUK/HKG. United opted to lease the 4 -238B's we also flew to Asia and south Pacific. I was an international Terminal Maintenance foreman at SFO and I can tell you, Every Day was an Adventure and a challenge. Hell! It was the best fun I ever Had with my clothes on! We had TOTAL control of our shifts and we also had the Last word on our decisions. But LORD? We'd better be Right! I must have been Fired 5-6 times as my decisions were questioned. And I had to cover my ass while WATCHING my ass. Especially since I didn't have to answer to anybody but the Maintenance manager. I rarely if Ever got questioned for any decision while on shift. All the questions came the Next morning. And I got a LOT of them. My boss called my shift a bunch of "Pirates with Wrenches". And? We Were. But we were Good Pirates!!
 
Max Q
Posts: 8556
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:47 am

strfyr51 wrote:
Transpac787 wrote:
Hey all,

I recently was given an old United 747 manual from the early 90's, and was intrigued at how varied and non-uniform the fleet was, in terms of weight & engine combinations. Most of the manual is dated 1991, just prior to United buying the 7 ex-QF 747-200's. It's those I'm most interested about, to "fill in the blanks", so to speak.

747-100:

MGTOW of 734.0 and JT9D-3A motors
N4713U-N4717U
N4719U-N4720U
N4727U-N4735U
N154UA
N157UA

MGTOW of 750.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N4718U
N4723U
N153UA
N155UA
N156UA


747-200:

MGTOW of 833.0 and JT9D-7R motors
N151UA
N152UA


747SP:

MGTOW of 696.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N140UA
N141UA
N142UA
N143UA
N144UA
N145UA

MGTOW of 702.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N146UA
N147UA
N148UA
N149UA
N150UA (lone 747SP-27, significantly different from rest of fleet)


So, a few questions, if anyone has any information or insight:

- What were the weights/engines of the 747-200's bought used from Qantas (N158UA to N165UA)??
- Any insight as to why the two subfleets of 741's?? Why some of the ex-AA birds carried -3A motors, and others carried -7A's??
- Why the two different weights of 74L's?? The manual specifically referenced that the late-delivery birds had to be significantly modified in order to get the increase, and it wasn't just a simple paper-change from Boeing for the additional weight.

Any other information that anyone would like to share would be appreciated.

all the 747-122's and 123's all eventually flew the JT9D-7ACN engine which we removed the turbine reversers and upgraded the core engines. The two -222B 8851 .8852 were delivered brand new from the factory as 833.000 Max GWT for the JFK-NRT market and primarily flew those flights. The L1011-500's Primarily flew Intra Asian routes ,
And the 8 SP-21's and the 2 SP-27's flew SFO and LAX to Asia and SFO/LAX- to SYD/ AUK/HKG. United opted to lease the 4 -238B's we also flew to Asia and south Pacific. I was an international Terminal Maintenance foreman at SFO and I can tell you, Every Day was an Adventure and a challenge. Hell! It was the best fun I ever Had with my clothes on! We had TOTAL control of our shifts and we also had the Last word on our decisions. But LORD? We'd better be Right! I must have been Fired 5-6 times as my decisions were questioned. And I had to cover my ass while WATCHING my ass. Especially since I didn't have to answer to anybody but the Maintenance manager. I rarely if Ever got questioned for any decision while on shift. All the questions came the Next morning. And I got a LOT of them. My boss called my shift a bunch of "Pirates with Wrenches". And? We Were. But we were Good Pirates!!



Great stuff, it must have been a fascinating time, always enjoy your posts


I have a vivid memory of my first and only flight on a 747SP. It was a brand new Pan Am aircraft and still had plastic covers on the unoccupied seats


I flew non stop from HKG-SFO, that was in 1981, just a few years later that airframe was inherited by United


I often wonder if it’s one of the two surviving and operational ex PAA models with P&W as their engine testbed or the SOFIA in flight telescope used by NASA
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
Transpac787
Topic Author
Posts: 1421
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:47 pm

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:14 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
the 8 SP-21's and the 2 SP-27's flew SFO and LAX to Asia and SFO/LAX- to SYD/ AUK/HKG.


United (and PanAm before them) had 10 SP-21's and only 1 SP-27.

N140UA to N149UA were 21's, only N150UA was a 27.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 5089
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:19 am

Max Q wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
Transpac787 wrote:
Hey all,

I recently was given an old United 747 manual from the early 90's, and was intrigued at how varied and non-uniform the fleet was, in terms of weight & engine combinations. Most of the manual is dated 1991, just prior to United buying the 7 ex-QF 747-200's. It's those I'm most interested about, to "fill in the blanks", so to speak.

747-100:

MGTOW of 734.0 and JT9D-3A motors
N4713U-N4717U
N4719U-N4720U
N4727U-N4735U
N154UA
N157UA

MGTOW of 750.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N4718U
N4723U
N153UA
N155UA
N156UA


747-200:

MGTOW of 833.0 and JT9D-7R motors
N151UA
N152UA


747SP:

MGTOW of 696.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N140UA
N141UA
N142UA
N143UA
N144UA
N145UA

MGTOW of 702.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N146UA
N147UA
N148UA
N149UA
N150UA (lone 747SP-27, significantly different from rest of fleet)


So, a few questions, if anyone has any information or insight:

- What were the weights/engines of the 747-200's bought used from Qantas (N158UA to N165UA)??
- Any insight as to why the two subfleets of 741's?? Why some of the ex-AA birds carried -3A motors, and others carried -7A's??
- Why the two different weights of 74L's?? The manual specifically referenced that the late-delivery birds had to be significantly modified in order to get the increase, and it wasn't just a simple paper-change from Boeing for the additional weight.

Any other information that anyone would like to share would be appreciated.

all the 747-122's and 123's all eventually flew the JT9D-7ACN engine which we removed the turbine reversers and upgraded the core engines. The two -222B 8851 .8852 were delivered brand new from the factory as 833.000 Max GWT for the JFK-NRT market and primarily flew those flights. The L1011-500's Primarily flew Intra Asian routes ,
And the 8 SP-21's and the 2 SP-27's flew SFO and LAX to Asia and SFO/LAX- to SYD/ AUK/HKG. United opted to lease the 4 -238B's we also flew to Asia and south Pacific. I was an international Terminal Maintenance foreman at SFO and I can tell you, Every Day was an Adventure and a challenge. Hell! It was the best fun I ever Had with my clothes on! We had TOTAL control of our shifts and we also had the Last word on our decisions. But LORD? We'd better be Right! I must have been Fired 5-6 times as my decisions were questioned. And I had to cover my ass while WATCHING my ass. Especially since I didn't have to answer to anybody but the Maintenance manager. I rarely if Ever got questioned for any decision while on shift. All the questions came the Next morning. And I got a LOT of them. My boss called my shift a bunch of "Pirates with Wrenches". And? We Were. But we were Good Pirates!!



Great stuff, it must have been a fascinating time, always enjoy your posts


I have a vivid memory of my first and only flight on a 747SP. It was a brand new Pan Am aircraft and still had plastic covers on the unoccupied seats


I flew non stop from HKG-SFO, that was in 1981, just a few years later that airframe was inherited by United

planning =
I often wonder if it’s one of the two surviving and operational ex PAA models with P&W as their engine testbed or the SOFIA in flight telescope used by NASA

The SOFIA airplane ws N147UA Nose Nbr 8647,
which by the way flew the first round the world speed record with Capt. Clay Lacey in Command One of my Lead mechanics Mel Wienkowski was one of the flight mechanics who went along with a Mercedes Bens and about 40 passengers. The Stipulations were so tight they had to fly the exact flight plan to equal all the Mileage equal to the equator of the earth. but do it with speed. So Now today she flies for NASA with a Telscope in her aft cabin and a huge door back there,
 
Max Q
Posts: 8556
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:02 am

strfyr51 wrote:
Max Q wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
all the 747-122's and 123's all eventually flew the JT9D-7ACN engine which we removed the turbine reversers and upgraded the core engines. The two -222B 8851 .8852 were delivered brand new from the factory as 833.000 Max GWT for the JFK-NRT market and primarily flew those flights. The L1011-500's Primarily flew Intra Asian routes ,
And the 8 SP-21's and the 2 SP-27's flew SFO and LAX to Asia and SFO/LAX- to SYD/ AUK/HKG. United opted to lease the 4 -238B's we also flew to Asia and south Pacific. I was an international Terminal Maintenance foreman at SFO and I can tell you, Every Day was an Adventure and a challenge. Hell! It was the best fun I ever Had with my clothes on! We had TOTAL control of our shifts and we also had the Last word on our decisions. But LORD? We'd better be Right! I must have been Fired 5-6 times as my decisions were questioned. And I had to cover my ass while WATCHING my ass. Especially since I didn't have to answer to anybody but the Maintenance manager. I rarely if Ever got questioned for any decision while on shift. All the questions came the Next morning. And I got a LOT of them. My boss called my shift a bunch of "Pirates with Wrenches". And? We Were. But we were Good Pirates!!



Great stuff, it must have been a fascinating time, always enjoy your posts


I have a vivid memory of my first and only flight on a 747SP. It was a brand new Pan Am aircraft and still had plastic covers on the unoccupied seats


I flew non stop from HKG-SFO, that was in 1981, just a few years later that airframe was inherited by United

planning =
I often wonder if it’s one of the two surviving and operational ex PAA models with P&W as their engine testbed or the SOFIA in flight telescope used by NASA

The SOFIA airplane ws N147UA Nose Nbr 8647,
which by the way flew the first round the world speed record with Capt. Clay Lacey in Command One of my Lead mechanics Mel Wienkowski was one of the flight mechanics who went along with a Mercedes Bens and about 40 passengers. The Stipulations were so tight they had to fly the exact flight plan to equal all the Mileage equal to the equator of the earth. but do it with speed. So Now today she flies for NASA with a Telscope in her aft cabin and a huge door back there,



I remember the flight


You mention a Mercedes was along for the ride, any particular reason for that ?
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
strfyr51
Posts: 5089
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:30 am

Max Q wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
Max Q wrote:


Great stuff, it must have been a fascinating time, always enjoy your posts


I have a vivid memory of my first and only flight on a 747SP. It was a brand new Pan Am aircraft and still had plastic covers on the unoccupied seats


I flew non stop from HKG-SFO, that was in 1981, just a few years later that airframe was inherited by United

planning =
I often wonder if it’s one of the two surviving and operational ex PAA models with P&W as their engine testbed or the SOFIA in flight telescope used by NASA

The SOFIA airplane ws N147UA Nose Nbr 8647,
which by the way flew the first round the world speed record with Capt. Clay Lacey in Command One of my Lead mechanics Mel Wienkowski was one of the flight mechanics who went along with a Mercedes Bens and about 40 passengers. The Stipulations were so tight they had to fly the exact flight plan to equal all the Mileage equal to the equator of the earth. but do it with speed. So Now today she flies for NASA with a Telscope in her aft cabin and a huge door back there,



I remember the flight


You mention a Mercedes was along for the ride, any particular reason for that ?

Yeah! They sold it for a TON of money
 
strfyr51
Posts: 5089
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:31 am

strfyr51 wrote:
Max Q wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
The SOFIA airplane ws N147UA Nose Nbr 8647,
which by the way flew the first round the world speed record with Capt. Clay Lacey in Command One of my Lead mechanics Mel Wienkowski was one of the flight mechanics who went along with a Mercedes Bens and about 40 passengers. The Stipulations were so tight they had to fly the exact flight plan to equal all the Mileage equal to the equator of the earth. but do it with speed. So Now today she flies for NASA with a Telscope in her aft cabin and a huge door back there,



I remember the flight


You mention a Mercedes was along for the ride, any particular reason for that ?

Yeah! They sold it for a TON of money

Where could you buy a car that had been around the World??
 
User avatar
747classic
Posts: 3329
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:13 am

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:06 am

Boeing 747-222B(SF) , L/N 675, MSN 23737, N152UA, N646NW, N794CK, UP-B4702 seems to be escaped from scrapping and is active again.
See : https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... nes/rmggor

Last week, a 747-200SF (23737, ex-Kalitta Air) landed at Shymkent (CIT) airport in Kazakhstan, on delivery to Sigma Airlines. The Aviation Administration of Kazakhstan confirmed in early December that Sigma had registered the country’s first 747 freighter.
Kalitta confirmed that unit 23737 was recently sold to United Arab Emirates-based East Meets West (EMW) Aviation, which also purchased two other 747 Classics from Kalitta during the past three years.
In a statement on the country’s aviation administration website, Sigma noted that the 747-200SF is leased from “the Emirate company” until 2022 and will be based in Shymkent.
See : https://cargofacts.com/allposts/logisti ... irst-747f/

Image
Photo : Aviation Administration of Kazakhstan
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
User avatar
DL_Mech
Posts: 2537
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 7:48 am

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Sun Jan 05, 2020 4:11 pm

747classic wrote:
Boeing 747-222B(SF) , L/N 675, MSN 23737, N152UA, N646NW, N794CK, UP-B4702 seems to be escaped from scrapping and is active again.


Makes me wonder if the -7R4 engine is keeping this ship alive. Does P&W still support this A-310/B-767/B-747-300 engine?
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
BravoOne
Posts: 4094
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Sun Jan 05, 2020 4:52 pm

PW was only doing overhauls in Singapore a few years back. The last North American OH facility was at Air Canada, but their test cell was limited to the -3 (as I recall?) All of this has probably changed in the last few years/
 
User avatar
747classic
Posts: 3329
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:13 am

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:44 pm

DL_Mech wrote:
747classic wrote:
Boeing 747-222B(SF) , L/N 675, MSN 23737, N152UA, N646NW, N794CK, UP-B4702 seems to be escaped from scrapping and is active again.


Makes me wonder if the -7R4 engine is keeping this ship alive. Does P&W still support this A-310/B-767/B-747-300 engine?


Some more 747classic aircraft, powered by -7R4 are still active :

747-3G1, L/N 592, MSN 23070, HZ-HMS1A, SAUDIA Government, 4x PW JT9D-7R4G2, depatured from HAM, after HMV, April 26th 2019.
747-222B(SF), L/N 637, MSN 23736, 4L-GEL, GEO-SKY, Georgia, 4x PW JT9D-7R4G2, ex N151UA, N645NW, N793CK
747-251B(SF), L/N 594, MSN 23111, 4L-GEM, GEO-SKY, Georgia, 4x PW JT9D-7R4G2, ex N631US, N631NW, N795CK

Also several B767-200 aircraft, powered by -7R engines are active :
Atlas, the first five 767-200 BDSF aircraft N650GT -N654GT

etc.

JT9D MRO , see : http://www.kalittaair.com/power-plant-services

Kalitta has also a 747-200/300 full flight simulator* available, selectable for GE CF6-50E2 or PW JT9D-7R4G2 power,
See : http://www.kalittaair.com/flight-training-devices

* Note : Former KLM 747-300 SIM were I spend countless hours as victim and later as TRI/TRE
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 5089
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:22 am

Transpac787 wrote:
Hey all,

I recently was given an old United 747 manual from the early 90's, and was intrigued at how varied and non-uniform the fleet was, in terms of weight & engine combinations. Most of the manual is dated 1991, just prior to United buying the 7 ex-QF 747-200's. It's those I'm most interested about, to "fill in the blanks", so to speak.

747-100:

MGTOW of 734.0 and JT9D-3A motors
N4713U-N4717U
N4719U-N4720U
N4727U-N4735U
N154UA
N157UA

MGTOW of 750.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N4718U
N4723U
N153UA
N155UA
N156UA


747-200:

MGTOW of 833.0 and JT9D-7R motors
N151UA
N152UA


747SP:

MGTOW of 696.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N140UA
N141UA
N142UA
N143UA
N144UA
N145UA

MGTOW of 702.0 and JT9D-7A motors
N146UA
N147UA
N148UA
N149UA
N150UA (lone 747SP-27, significantly different from rest of fleet)


So, a few questions, if anyone has any information or insight:

- What were the weights/engines of the 747-200's bought used from Qantas (N158UA to N165UA)??
- Any insight as to why the two subfleets of 741's?? Why some of the ex-AA birds carried -3A motors, and others carried -7A's??
- Why the two different weights of 74L's?? The manual specifically referenced that the late-delivery birds had to be significantly modified in order to get the increase, and it wasn't just a simple paper-change from Boeing for the additional weight.

Any other information that anyone would like to share would be appreciated.

we had 2 sp27's with he straight staircase up to the upper deck 150UA and 151UA 1 was sold to Dubai Air wing. I have no idea where the other went, 8647 147UA is now the NASA SOFIA 747 with the telescope in he rear cabin. I have no Idea where the other SP's went, All the 747-122's and 123's were converted to the
JT9D-7ACN engines and all had upgrades to 750K- MGWT and were eventually replaced with the 747-422's and the 2 -451's.
D-7ACN
 
Transpac787
Topic Author
Posts: 1421
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:47 pm

Re: United 747-100 / 200 / SP Fleet

Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:58 am

strfyr51 wrote:
we had 2 sp27's with he straight staircase up to the upper deck 150UA and 151UA 1 was sold to Dubai Air wing. I have no idea where the other went, 8647 147UA is now the NASA SOFIA 747 with the telescope in he rear cabin. I have no Idea where the other SP's went


I'm not sure where you're getting that info, it's completely incorrect. United only ever operated a single SP27: N150UA.

N151UA was a 747-222B, not a 747SP-27.

Only three 747SP-27's were ever built. Their fates as follows:
N603BN went back to Boeing in 1981, after Braniff ceased operations. In 1984, it became the Oman Royal Flight. Before UA even purchased the Pacific Division.
N604BN was sold to Aerolineas Argentina in 1980. It served there until 1990, eventually going to become the Yemen Government aircraft.
N606BN was sold to PanAm in 1983, and onto United in 1985.

The Dubai Royal 747SP was A6-SMR, which was a 747SP-31... originally a TWA bird. It never served at United.

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