jakubz
Topic Author
Posts: 143
Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 9:48 pm

747's and the SCD tag

Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:31 pm

So I have noticed that 747 frieghters sometimes have the SCD tag in the aircraft type, and sometimes they don't. (I know that SCD stands for Side Cargo Door)

To me, this implies either that either:
A) the SCD is optional and the SCD tag indicates the presence of the SCD
or
B) the SCD is standard and inclusion of the SCD tag depends the person entering the data remembering to include it

Can anybody tell me which is correct?

B747-200C vs B747-200C/SCD

B747-200F vs B747-200F/SCD

B747-400F vs B747-400F/SCD

B747-400F/ER vs B747-400F/SCD/ER

B747-8F vs B747-8F/SCD
KORD>RJAA>KORD day trip? Why not! The beauty of non-reving.
Yes, I use ICAO codes
Flown: PA-28, PA-38
Passenger on: A319/A320 737, 747-400, 757, 767, 777, 787-8/9
Finally got on a 747!

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747classic
Posts: 2675
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:13 am

Re: 747's and the SCD tag

Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:45 am

SCD is an unofficial addition, seen in some listings.
All full freighters (-F), Convertible (-C) ,Combi's (-M) and Converted freighters (-SF, -BCF and -BDSF) are equipped with Side Cargo Doors.

Some History :

The side cargo door was optional on early -200C convertible and -200F freighter aircraft, later the SCD became standard.

The first 747-200F and three (3) 747-200C's were delivered with only the nose cargo door. (SCD option not available yet )

Delivered with nose door only ( all later modified with a SCD) :

- L/N 168, 747-230F for Lufthansa
- L/N 209, 747-273C for World Airways
- L/N 211, 747-273C for World Airways
- L/N 273, 747-273C for World Airways

The side cargo door option was designed and certified at a cost of $15 million in 1973/1974 and installed (modification) at the two Sabena 747-100's during spring 1974. (L/N92 & 95)

The first factory built 747-200F with both the nose and the optional side cargo door installed was L/N 242 for Seabord World, see :
https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive ... 01162.html
The first factory built 747-200 combi with the side cargo door installed was L/N 250 a 747-233B(combi) for Air Canada
The first factory built 747-200C with the optional side cargo door was L/N 287 for Iraqi Airways

All below listed 747 sub-types have a SCD :

747-100M (converted to combi- nil factory built))
747-100SF
747-200F
747-200C
747-200M (Mixed - not official), official 747-200BC (combi)
747-200SF
747-300M
747-300SF
747-400M
747-400F
747-400ERF (not official - official (FAA) indicated as a 747-400F with high gross weight.)
747-400BCF
747-400BDSF
747-8F
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
Max Q
Posts: 7706
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: 747's and the SCD tag

Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:48 am

Fascinating the first purpose built freighters only had the nose door


I wonder if Boeing assumed that would be adequate for all customers and that was the final design configuration or they planned later versions with a side cargo door


Or was it the freight operators themselves that wanted a second, larger door ?
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


Guns and the love of them by a loud minority are a malignant and deadly cancer inflicted on American society
 
zanl188
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Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:05 pm

Re: 747's and the SCD tag

Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:01 am

I’ve always associated the SCD tag with converted passenger aircraft. Specifically the PanAm CRAF aircraft.
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747classic
Posts: 2675
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:13 am

Re: 747's and the SCD tag

Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:59 am

Panam CRAF aircraft are actually 747-100SF and 747-200SF aircraft, with SCD and strengthend main deck floor, however without the main deck cargo loading system.

Below are Pan Am's CRAF converted 747s listed and the years they were converted :

1985
N653PA, 747-121, (cn 20348/106)
N655PA, 747-121, (cn 20350/117)

1986
N734PA, 747-121, (cn 19641/7)
N743PA, 747-121, (cn 19650/24)
N902PA, 747-132, (cn 19896/72)
N725PA, 747-132, (cn 19898/94)
N728PA, 747-212B, (cn 20712/218)

1987
N739PA, 747-121, (cn 19646/15)
N729PA, 747-212B, (cn 20713/219)
N730PA, 747-212B, (cn 20888/240)

1988
N747PA, 747-121, (cn 19639/2)
N4703U, 747-122, (cn 19753/52)
N4704U, 747-122, (cn 19754/60)
N4712U, 747-122, (cn 19757/67)

1989
N4710U, 747-122, (cn 19755/61)
N4711U, 747-122, (cn 19756/66)
N9670, 747-123, (cn 20109/90)
N9674, 747-123, (cn 20326/133)

1990
N726PA, 747-212B, (cn 21048/253)

See reply 12 of clipper 471 of this thread : viewtopic.php?t=236085
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
jakubz
Topic Author
Posts: 143
Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 9:48 pm

Re: 747's and the SCD tag

Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:13 pm

747classic wrote:
SCD is an unofficial addition, seen in some listings.
All full freighters (-F), Convertible (-C) ,Combi's (-M) and Converted freighters (-SF, -BCF and -BDSF) are equipped with Side Cargo Doors.

Some History :

The side cargo door was optional on early -200C convertible and -200F freighter aircraft, later the SCD became standard.

The first 747-200F and three (3) 747-200C's were delivered with only the nose cargo door. (SCD option not available yet )

Delivered with nose door only ( all later modified with a SCD) :

- L/N 168, 747-230F for Lufthansa
- L/N 209, 747-273C for World Airways
- L/N 211, 747-273C for World Airways
- L/N 273, 747-273C for World Airways

The side cargo door option was designed and certified at a cost of $15 million in 1973/1974 and installed (modification) at the two Sabena 747-100's during spring 1974. (L/N92 & 95)

The first factory built 747-200F with both the nose and the optional side cargo door installed was L/N 242 for Seabord World, see :
https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive ... 01162.html
The first factory built 747-200 combi with the side cargo door installed was L/N 250 a 747-233B(combi) for Air Canada
The first factory built 747-200C with the optional side cargo door was L/N 287 for Iraqi Airways

All below listed 747 sub-types have a SCD :

747-100M (converted to combi- nil factory built))
747-100SF
747-200F
747-200C
747-200M (Mixed - not official), official 747-200BC (combi)
747-200SF
747-300M
747-300SF
747-400M
747-400F
747-400ERF (not official - official (FAA) indicated as a 747-400F with high gross weight.)
747-400BCF
747-400BDSF
747-8F



Ok, I think I get what you are saying. I'll restate it to see if I have it right.

Fresh from the factory, SCD was optional at least on some of the frames.(i.e. some frames might not have had an SCD at some point)
747-200C
747-200F

Fresh from the factory, SCD was Standard for all frames. (i.e. all will have the SCD)
747-200B/M (-200 combi)
747-300M
747-400M
747-400F
747-400F/ER
747-8F

Conversions, all got SCD as part of the conversion. (i.e. all will have the SCD)
747-100M
747-100SF
747-200SF
747-300SF
747-400BCF
747-400BDSF

Is my categorization correct?

P.S. Thank you all for your responses.
KORD>RJAA>KORD day trip? Why not! The beauty of non-reving.
Yes, I use ICAO codes
Flown: PA-28, PA-38
Passenger on: A319/A320 737, 747-400, 757, 767, 777, 787-8/9
Finally got on a 747!

I work for United Airlines, but I don't speak for the company.
 
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747classic
Posts: 2675
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:13 am

Re: 747's and the SCD tag

Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:33 pm

jakubz wrote:


Ok, I think I get what you are saying. I'll restate it to see if I have it right.

Fresh from the factory, SCD was optional at least on some of the frames.(i.e. some frames might not have had an SCD at some point)
747-200C
747-200F

Fresh from the factory, SCD was Standard for all frames. (i.e. all will have the SCD)
747-200B/M (-200 combi)
747-300M
747-400M
747-400F
747-400F/ER
747-8F

Conversions, all got SCD as part of the conversion. (i.e. all will have the SCD)
747-100M
747-100SF
747-200SF
747-300SF
747-400BCF
747-400BDSF

Is my categorization correct?

P.S. Thank you all for your responses.


Correct :checkmark:
The SCD was first not available for the 747-200F and -200C, then optional and finally standard, because all customers noticed the increased payload possibilities (10 ft high cargo could pass the SCD, only 8 ft high cargo fits through the nose door,)
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
Max Q
Posts: 7706
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: 747's and the SCD tag

Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:05 pm

747classic wrote:
Panam CRAF aircraft are actually 747-100SF and 747-200SF aircraft, with SCD and strengthend main deck floor, however without the main deck cargo loading system.

Below are Pan Am's CRAF converted 747s listed and the years they were converted :

1985
N653PA, 747-121, (cn 20348/106)
N655PA, 747-121, (cn 20350/117)

1986
N734PA, 747-121, (cn 19641/7)
N743PA, 747-121, (cn 19650/24)
N902PA, 747-132, (cn 19896/72)
N725PA, 747-132, (cn 19898/94)
N728PA, 747-212B, (cn 20712/218)

1987
N739PA, 747-121, (cn 19646/15)
N729PA, 747-212B, (cn 20713/219)
N730PA, 747-212B, (cn 20888/240)

1988
N747PA, 747-121, (cn 19639/2)
N4703U, 747-122, (cn 19753/52)
N4704U, 747-122, (cn 19754/60)
N4712U, 747-122, (cn 19757/67)

1989
N4710U, 747-122, (cn 19755/61)
N4711U, 747-122, (cn 19756/66)
N9670, 747-123, (cn 20109/90)
N9674, 747-123, (cn 20326/133)

1990
N726PA, 747-212B, (cn 21048/253)

See reply 12 of clipper 471 of this thread : viewtopic.php?t=236085



Were any of these modified 747’s ever called up and used as freighters ?

I know some were used to transport troops
over the years, incidentally I remember reading this floor strengthening naturally resulted in a higher empty weight causing an increased fuel burn in regular service for which Pan Am was compensated
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


Guns and the love of them by a loud minority are a malignant and deadly cancer inflicted on American society
 
User avatar
747classic
Posts: 2675
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:13 am

Re: 747's and the SCD tag

Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:33 am

As far as Pan American and the CRAF program were concerned, the appropriate final chapter came with the Gulf War in 1990/91. Even before the call up came from the US government, Pan Am and a handful of other carriers volunteered their crews and aircraft to get American troops to the Middle East. When the official call came in August 1990 for Operation “Desert Shield,” Pan Am supplied three aircraft (as did Northwest). That official call was the very first time that the CRAF system had been officially put to the test in an emergency, and it worked without a hitch. When the operation ended in May, CRAF aircraft had completed 5,400 missions, carrying 60% of the passengers and 25% of the cargo. It was the first and last time Pan Am would ever be involved in a CRAF call-up, but given the long history of the airline’s involvement with government work, it seems fitting that “America’s most experienced airline” was there.

See : https://www.panam.org/global-era/687-ai ... a-the-craf
In this link you also can find pictures of the actual conversion (1986) of N655PA "Clipper Sea Serpent" , indicated as a 747-121A/SF by Panam (A = upgraded to 755K MTOW)

As far as I know no Pan American 747's were actually used in the full freighter mode in their CRAF role during "Desert Shield".

Airmen load gear and personnel aboard a CRAF Pan Am jumbo jet at Ramstein Air Base, Germany, for deployment to Saudi Arabia
Image

Copyright US Air force, see : https://www.wearethemighty.com/articles ... raft-fleet

One final note: the CRAF was activated again in 2003, in support of Operation “Iraqi Freedom” – but of course this time, without Pan Am
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
Max Q
Posts: 7706
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: 747's and the SCD tag

Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:00 pm

Interesting, these aircraft were extensively modified so they could be used as freighters but never were despite being ‘called up’ it was solely to carry troops
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


Guns and the love of them by a loud minority are a malignant and deadly cancer inflicted on American society

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