newair810
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Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 10:39 pm

Airbus a321 vertical stablizer/ rudder improvements

Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:47 pm

Hi, I have a technical question about airbus planes. I realize the crash of airbus flight 587 has been discussed and I have read the reports from the NTSB. My question is are newer airbuses designed different or is the vertical stabilizer the same basically? Is this unlikely to happen on an Airbus A321.

Here is the accident I am referring to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_ ... Flight_587

Basically my question is has the plane's tail structure changed compared to this plane, which is an a321.

https://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-a321-6214.htm

I guess basically my question comes about because I have never been on an airbus and I have heard about rudder problems. Just looking for some information from those who are more knowledgeable than me.Thank you.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Airbus a321 vertical stablizer/ rudder improvements

Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:18 pm

The Airbus has no rudder problems or weaknesses. The AA plane A321, it was an A300-600. After that accident, most AFMs have a warning about inputting rapid, opposing flight controls. I’d guess if similar inputs were applied on any Part 25, there’d be a risk of fin failure

GF
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: Airbus a321 vertical stablizer/ rudder improvements

Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:17 am

To expand on what GalaxyFlyer's post, rudders are not designed to withstand repeated, full, opposing rudder inputs. It is not a certification requirement. Indeed, the AA587 rudder was shown during the investigation to have held up beyond certification requirements before it failed.

Before the accident, both Airbus and Boeing had written to AA about their training, emphasizing that rudder use in such situations was always inappropriate.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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fr8mech
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Re: Airbus a321 vertical stablizer/ rudder improvements

Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:51 am

Just a point of accuracy, the rudder did not fail, one of the vertical stabilizer attachment lugs failed, followed by additional lug failures, which resulted in the vertical stabilizer departing the aircraft.
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Max Q
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Re: Airbus a321 vertical stablizer/ rudder improvements

Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:09 pm

I remember reading that AB has modified the flight control software for the rudder on all its FBW transports to protect it and the fin from being overstressed
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Starlionblue
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Re: Airbus a321 vertical stablizer/ rudder improvements

Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:19 pm

Max Q wrote:
I remember reading that AB has modified the flight control software for the rudder on all its FBW transports to protect it and the fin from being overstressed


There may have been tweaks, but they are not readily apparent in the manuals. From the FCOM, under Yaw Control, Rudder Travel Limit, "The maximum rudder travel deflection gradually reduces as the speed increases, to avoid high structural loads."

Under Normal Law, "Protections are intended to... Reduce the risk of overcontrolling, or overstressing the aircraft." That being said, the same section includes the phrase, "... these protections are not designed to be structural limit protections (e.g. opposite rudder pedal inputs)."
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
B6JFKH81
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Re: Airbus a321 vertical stablizer/ rudder improvements

Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:07 am

newair810 wrote:
Hi, I have a technical question about airbus planes. I realize the crash of airbus flight 587 has been discussed and I have read the reports from the NTSB. My question is are newer airbuses designed different or is the vertical stabilizer the same basically? Is this unlikely to happen on an Airbus A321.

Here is the accident I am referring to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_ ... Flight_587

Basically my question is has the plane's tail structure changed compared to this plane, which is an a321.

https://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-a321-6214.htm

I guess basically my question comes about because I have never been on an airbus and I have heard about rudder problems. Just looking for some information from those who are more knowledgeable than me.Thank you.


Out of curiosity, what "rudder problems" have you heard about? I do not recall an A320-series accident for rudder issues in particular. The 737, yes, I remember that, but not the A320-series? As someone in the heavy maintenance field for the A320-series, I haven't seen any reoccurring problems with the rudder or system other than normal stuff.
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