dr1980
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Yoke "feel" in various airliners

Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:03 pm

Hi everyone, I'm wondering if anyone can provide some real world insights into how various airliners "feel" when manually flying them using a yoke (ie weight relative weight of controls/force required). Or in aircraft with hydraulic systems are they relatively similar in feel?

I recently invested in a Brunner force feedback yoke for flightsimming and the forces are configurable through various profiles. Brunner has created a profile for the 737-800 so that's my starting point...I can modify that profile to fit other aircraft as appropriate. I've been tweaking profiles based on a simple assumption that the larger the aircraft the heavier it would feel in the controls, but I really have no idea if that's correct or not. I'm guessing it's not that simple or straightforward.

The other aircraft I'm trying to create profiles for are most of the available addons for Prepar3D and X-Plane to a lesser extent: 757-200 &-300, 777-200LR & -300ER, 747-400, CRJ-700 & -900, Q400, B787 (all variants), 737-200, 727-200.

Thanks for any assistance!

Dave
Dave/CYHZ
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: Yoke "feel" in various airliners

Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:41 pm

The 'bus has no yoke and no force feedback. It's just a set of springs. The "feel" is the same regardless of speed or configuration.

In modern airliners, you never actually feel the surfaces. It is always some sort of artificial feel, You fly by visuals and instruments, not by feel.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
dr1980
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Re: Yoke "feel" in various airliners

Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:58 pm

Thanks, roger that on the Airbus, I'm actually not going to use the yoke with flying those, going to stick with my joystick...just wouldn't feel right with a yoke!
Dave/CYHZ
 
BravoOne
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Re: Yoke "feel" in various airliners

Sun Oct 06, 2019 3:06 pm

It's been awhile but I recall a presentation from a Boeing pilot/engineer that said all Boeing models are built around a 40 lb pull weight. Obviously this has to be adjusted for a dozen or more variables so don't take it to the bank just yet. I'll see if I can find some more data reference this number.
 
426Shadow
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Re: Yoke "feel" in various airliners

Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:00 pm

Starlionblue wrote:
The 'bus has no yoke and no force feedback. It's just a set of springs. The "feel" is the same regardless of speed or configuration.

In modern airliners, you never actually feel the surfaces. It is always some sort of artificial feel, You fly by visuals and instruments, not by feel.


You had to have seen that he SPECIFICALLY left out all Airbus aircraft in his list. Was this just your opportunity to flash your Airbus credentials where it wasn't warranted?
Do it on three, One.....THREEEEEEE! Just got the nuts hangin out.
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: Yoke "feel" in various airliners

Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:24 pm

426Shadow wrote:
Starlionblue wrote:
The 'bus has no yoke and no force feedback. It's just a set of springs. The "feel" is the same regardless of speed or configuration.

In modern airliners, you never actually feel the surfaces. It is always some sort of artificial feel, You fly by visuals and instruments, not by feel.


You had to have seen that he SPECIFICALLY left out all Airbus aircraft in his list. Was this just your opportunity to flash your Airbus credentials where it wasn't warranted?


Apologies if I gave that impression. That was not my intention. But I'll note the thread title says "various airliners"...

The thread starter mentions his/her assumption that larger airliners are heavier on the controls. But this is incorrect. Aircraft size is largely irrelevant. And Airbus controls, with no feedback at all, are the ultimate illustration of this.

Control load limits are regulated btw, and this might be a good starting basis for a model of what the yoke/stick feels like. https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/25.397
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
mxaxai
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Re: Yoke "feel" in various airliners

Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:05 pm

Starlionblue wrote:
The 'bus has no yoke and no force feedback. It's just a set of springs. The "feel" is the same regardless of speed or configuration.

In modern airliners, you never actually feel the surfaces. It is always some sort of artificial feel, You fly by visuals and instruments, not by feel.

AFAIK, Airbus converts the stick deflection to a commanded acceleration. So pulling the stick by X degrees will give you Y g's of vertical acceleration. There would be no point in giving you a "feel" since the FBW gives you the same result for the same input, regardless of speed or configuration.
 
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rjsampson
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Re: Yoke "feel" in various airliners

Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:39 pm

Rather that discussing the side-stick: I would be curious as to how traditional control systems (yoke+hydraulics) differ in feel, among various types, from those with multiple such type ratings. Any thoughts?
"..your eyes will be forever turned skyward, for there.." yeah we know the DaVinci quote. But GA is so dang expensive these days! :(
 
dr1980
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Re: Yoke "feel" in various airliners

Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:48 pm

rjsampson wrote:
Rather that discussing the side-stick: I would be curious as to how traditional control systems (yoke+hydraulics) differ in feel, among various types, from those with multiple such type ratings. Any thoughts?


Me too :)
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