tax1k
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767-300 AC

Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:09 am

On relatively frequent Air Canada flights I’ve noticed that the 767s are kind of showing their age. I know aircraft are subject to rigid maintenance and inspection schedules but at what point do you say to yourself “if the seats, entertainment system, overhead bins and paneling look a bit worn than what else am I not seeing”? I imagine this question could be asked about other 767 and 757 fleets as well.
 
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fr8mech
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Re: 767-300 AC

Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:28 am

What you’re not seeing are the thousands of man-hours that maintenance puts in every year to keep the aircraft safe.
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1989worstyear
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Re: 767-300 AC

Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:10 am

tax1k wrote:
On relatively frequent Air Canada flights I’ve noticed that the 767s are kind of showing their age. I know aircraft are subject to rigid maintenance and inspection schedules but at what point do you say to yourself “if the seats, entertainment system, overhead bins and paneling look a bit worn than what else am I not seeing”? I imagine this question could be asked about other 767 and 757 fleets as well.


The last passenger 767 was built in 2014, so no, you can't ask that about the rest of the 767 fleet.

AC's mainline 767's are up there in age but so are many of their A320's (30 in a few months). So, does that change your viewpoint?
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
tax1k
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Re: 767-300 AC

Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:30 am

I’m not trying to undermine the mechanics. And honestly I have no idea if the age of the A320 fleet should affect my thoughts on 767s. I’m just saying that from the perspective of the passenger, the things we actually see (and can pretend to understand) have a greater effect on our sense of safety than the hydraulic line that was replaced yesterday. I know that’s not a technical analysis. That’s why I decided to post the question to people who know what they’re talking about.
 
1989worstyear
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Re: 767-300 AC

Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:07 am

I guess I'm just trying to make a point that not every 767 is 20+ years old, and some 767 fleets are actually fairly young (JAL, LATAM, ANA etc...). Using that same logic on the A320 would imply that most of the worldwide fleet was built in the '90s - hence why I brought AC as an example as they were an early A320 customer. Your fear of the 767, quite frankly, is irrational.

Also, the safety-critical components on aircraft are also designed and tested to much more rigorous standards than the IFE system or interior components. Both manufacturers have a criteria of system "design assurance levels" (or something like that) which classifies whether or not a system is critical for safe flight. As long as it fails in a "safe" manner (no electrical fires or impacts to safety-critical airplane systems), the IFE does not matter.
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
strfyr51
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Re: 767-300 AC

Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:40 pm

1989worstyear wrote:
I guess I'm just trying to make a point that not every 767 is 20+ years old, and some 767 fleets are actually fairly young (JAL, LATAM, ANA etc...). Using that same logic on the A320 would imply that most of the worldwide fleet was built in the '90s - hence why I brought AC as an example as they were an early A320 customer. Your fear of the 767, quite frankly, is irrational.

Also, the safety-critical components on aircraft are also designed and tested to much more rigorous standards than the IFE system or interior components. Both manufacturers have a criteria of system "design assurance levels" (or something like that) which classifies whether or not a system is critical for safe flight. As long as it fails in a "safe" manner (no electrical fires or impacts to safety-critical airplane systems), the IFE does not matter.

Many 767's are older than AC's ain't Broke? Then there might not be a need to fix it. Did you get where you were going safely? If So? Then everything Else is Gravy!
Especially if AC doesn't intend to Keep the fleet type.
 
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WildcatYXU
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Re: 767-300 AC

Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:19 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
Many 767's are older than AC's ain't Broke? Then there might not be a need to fix it. Did you get where you were going safely? If So? Then everything Else is Gravy!
Especially if AC doesn't intend to Keep the fleet type.


I believe AC intends to keep the 767's around for some time. Just not at mainline. The 763 fleet at AC Rouge isn't going anywhere.
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dr1980
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Re: 767-300 AC

Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:50 pm

It shows that they put most effort into the truly important stuff, ie safety critical systems rather than the rest.
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Starlionblue
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Re: 767-300 AC

Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:57 pm

tax1k wrote:
On relatively frequent Air Canada flights I’ve noticed that the 767s are kind of showing their age. I know aircraft are subject to rigid maintenance and inspection schedules but at what point do you say to yourself “if the seats, entertainment system, overhead bins and paneling look a bit worn than what else am I not seeing”? I imagine this question could be asked about other 767 and 757 fleets as well.


I know pax often get the impression that the state of the cabin reflects the state of the systems. However, the level of maintenance and refurbishment given to the cabin product might not even be decided by the same department. You can plonk in a brand new cabin in a 25-year old aircraft while not changing the maintenance regime. Or go above and beyond on maintenance while having scuffed carpets and fabrics, yellowing panels and dated IFE.

Of course, airlines are aware that pax don't see "under the hood" and first impressions matter. But budgets are limited. Target market also matters. A fleet doing regional flying might get less attention in the looks department than a fleet doing high yielding international routes.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
tax1k
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Re: 767-300 AC

Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:10 am

Thanks. That answer really helped.

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