Max Q
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Remember smoking in the cockpit ?

Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:32 am

It seems a long time ago now but I have vivid memories of flying with other pilots who smoked in the cockpit


I would always walk to the back until they were done but the habit and smell was pretty obnoxious



However to use a dumb expression ‘back in the day’ pilots who smoked in the cockpit were the rule, not the exception


Anyone else have any cockpit smoking stories ?
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


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mchei
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Re: Remember smoking in the cockpit ?

Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:41 am

I once flew Tunis Air from Düsseldorf to Djerba in the early 2000s. The cockpit door was open and children were invited to visit the pilots - who were smoking the true stuff like Gauloise Bleu or so. I kept this memory because the smell was incredible. Plus they had the cigarette pack right in the middle so that they could easily share it.
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extender
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Re: Remember smoking in the cockpit ?

Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:27 pm

Smoking was good for something: Finding leaks.
 
CosmicCruiser
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Re: Remember smoking in the cockpit ?

Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:39 pm

In the 70s I used to fly with a chainsmoker in a SaberLiner. There were times I would put the O2 mask on.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Remember smoking in the cockpit ?

Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:22 pm

Long time ago? I had a captain light up in 2019!
 
vikkyvik
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Re: Remember smoking in the cockpit ?

Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:14 pm

Ugh....even as a former smoker, I would never smoke in such a confined area. It's just disgusting.

Does the cockpit have strong enough ventilation to keep the air somewhat clear?
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JustAnFO
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Re: Remember smoking in the cockpit ?

Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:17 pm

Our ex-China jets have yellowed overhead panels and the distinct smell of stale tobacco smoke. It still goes on in some parts of the world.


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GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Remember smoking in the cockpit ?

Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:01 pm

Common in front of B727 at EAL and my first flights in a Citation.

GF
 
VSMUT
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Re: Remember smoking in the cockpit ?

Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:06 pm

vikkyvik wrote:
Does the cockpit have strong enough ventilation to keep the air somewhat clear?


No.

I still remember finding a review of a flight where I knew that particular captain and an FO who also smoked, had operated, and the reviewer had noticed it. So not only is the ventilation not strong enough, it seeps into the cabin as well :crazy:
 
RetiredWeasel
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Re: Remember smoking in the cockpit ?

Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:55 pm

Flew with one CPT in 747-200 who was courteous enough to stand underneath the sexton port and crack it with a lanyard to suck out the smoke. Ironically this port was actually called the "Smoke evacuation port" as taking sexton shots were not used or way obsolete.

Flew with another CPT who would ask the other pilot's if they mind if he smoked. Didn't matter if you objected, he lit up anyway. Didn't join him for any beers after the flight.
 
Max Q
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Re: Remember smoking in the cockpit ?

Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:47 am

RetiredWeasel wrote:
Flew with one CPT in 747-200 who was courteous enough to stand underneath the sexton port and crack it with a lanyard to suck out the smoke. Ironically this port was actually called the "Smoke evacuation port" as taking sexton shots were not used or way obsolete.

Flew with another CPT who would ask the other pilot's if they mind if he smoked. Didn't matter if you objected, he lit up anyway. Didn't join him for any beers after the flight.




I know the type !


Flew with a Capt on the 727 who had discovered if he crouched over, exhaled down and towards the rudder pedal area the smoke was carried away by the ventilation system


A real dignified look as well..
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


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ParkFSI
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Re: Remember smoking in the cockpit ?

Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:30 pm

On my first solo X-country (1979) in a C-152 I decided to light up. I dropped the sig and it fell under the seat, I couldn’t get my hand under the seat and smoke started so I poured what was left of my soda on it and the smoke stopped. I never smoked in any aircraft again : )
 
buzzard302
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Re: Remember smoking in the cockpit ?

Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:43 pm

Not a pilot, but I certainly remember the smoking and non smoking sections. Also reminds me of restaurants when you walked in, the hostess would ask smoking or non smoking?

Seems crazy to think we ever thought smoking in a sealed tube 35,000 ft in the air was a good idea.
 
Aircellist
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Re: Remember smoking in the cockpit ?

Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:20 pm

As a passenger, I remember smoking and non smoking, and also travelling in an AC 747 in june 1987 YMX-CDG. As there were no window seats left in the non smoking section I took the last one in the smoking section, with overhead vent opened to the max through all the flight!
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September11
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Re: Remember smoking in the cockpit ?

Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:07 pm

I remember the smell of cigarette smoke inside airplanes

Good entertainment
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buzzard302
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Re: Remember smoking in the cockpit ?

Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:31 pm

So were the cabins better ventilated back when smoking was allowed? Seems there must have been an air exchange rate to handle all the smoke. How does that compare to cabins in modern built airplanes?
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: Remember smoking in the cockpit ?

Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:29 am

buzzard302 wrote:
Not a pilot, but I certainly remember the smoking and non smoking sections. Also reminds me of restaurants when you walked in, the hostess would ask smoking or non smoking?

Seems crazy to think we ever thought smoking in a sealed tube 35,000 ft in the air was a good idea.


From a health point of view, I agree entirely.

From a fire hazard point of view, the big danger point is the lavatories. All that paper in a location that is often unattended...


buzzard302 wrote:
So were the cabins better ventilated back when smoking was allowed? Seems there must have been an air exchange rate to handle all the smoke. How does that compare to cabins in modern built airplanes?


AFAIK they were not better ventilated. And I would think modern airliners have better ventilation systems.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
rmilstre
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Re: Remember smoking in the cockpit ?

Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:59 am

Not in the cockpit, but this thread reminds me of a flight taken in early childhood, from Exeter to Guernsey. I was too young to know the aircraft type, but it was a prop and it was 2+2 seating. And the port side of the aircraft was non-smoking, while the starboard side of the aircraft was smoking. Even my 10-yr old brain found that to be ridiculous

-Rob.
 
hitower3
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Re: Remember smoking in the cockpit ?

Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:46 am

There is this nice video about the route proofing of the then-brand new Airbus A340-200 at Lufthansa, back in 1993.
https://youtu.be/3qMHgtrSlwk?t=221

Captain Dorfmeister lights up a cigar...
 
THS214
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Re: Remember smoking in the cockpit ?

Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:44 pm

buzzard302 wrote:
So were the cabins better ventilated back when smoking was allowed? Seems there must have been an air exchange rate to handle all the smoke. How does that compare to cabins in modern built airplanes?


No. When the smoking sign went of it was like poooooffff when everyone in the smoking section light up. There was a lot of smoke. Later on the flight it was less as they all were not smoking at the same time. But still a problem for a non smoker.

Finnair operated 2 A300s on leisure flights and some idiot desided that it was a good idea to have smoking section from door 2 to door 3. Sure they had a curtain but with constant traffic on the aisle that curtain was most of the time open. Whole plane turned out to be full of smoke and smell of cigarettes.

Back when smoking was allowed often the whole plane smell of cigarettes. Because in every class last rows were for smokers so 3 smoking sections on long haul.
 
RetiredWeasel
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Re: Remember smoking in the cockpit ?

Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:18 pm

I posted this a couple of years ago but is on topic in this thread:

As a 747-200 flight engineer in my early airline career, a couple of times the lead FA would come up to the cockpit and complain to the CPT that there's was way too much cigarette smoke in the cabin and it was bothering all the FA's. "Could you turn on the no-smoking sign please". Most CPTs would invent a reason (like turbulence reported ahead) and honor the lead's request.

Additionally, several old head lead FA's, knew about a procedure whereas the flight engineer would raise the cabin altitude 1000 feet or so and theoretically this would clear out most of the smoke through the outflow valves. Then the FE would slowly return the cabin altitude back to normal with the 'no-smoking' sign on. This was not any procedure that was written anywhere, but I was asked to do it a a couple of times. I really don't know how effective it was.
 
BravoOne
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Re: Remember smoking in the cockpit ?

Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:02 pm

As I recall the FE could control the 2 outflow valves on the L1011 individualy and by opening the aft vavle just a little more than the fwd valve the smoke would drift aft and overboard? I may have this all wrong as that was 30+ years ago.
 
Max Q
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Re: Remember smoking in the cockpit ?

Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:31 pm

Bit of thread drift here but since outflow valves have been mentioned..


The MD80’s we operated had very weak air conditioning packs and poor airflow throughout the aircraft


On the ground in the summer they would get very hot inside, even more so in the cockpit, with the typical long taxi lines departing EWR we would start melting up there


Our solution was to open the cockpit windows then manually close the outflow valve whereupon all the air would rush forward to exit from our windows, the ‘new outflow valve’ it also produced a very respectable cooling breeze
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RetiredWeasel
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Re: Remember smoking in the cockpit ?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:51 am

Max Q wrote:
Bit of thread drift here but since outflow valves have been mentioned..
The MD80’s we operated had very weak air conditioning packs and poor airflow throughout the aircraft
On the ground in the summer they would get very hot inside, even more so in the cockpit, with the typical long taxi lines departing EWR we would start melting up there
Our solution was to open the cockpit windows then manually close the outflow valve whereupon all the air would rush forward to exit from our windows, the ‘new outflow valve’ it also produced a very respectable cooling breeze


We did similar in the 742 while still in the chocks except the windows didn't open. We'd open the upper deck crew access door and close the outflow valves in the freighter. On the PAX aircraft we may have done that also but as soon as boarding started, we had to close that door--this was all just while waiting in the chocks before pushback.
 
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longhauler
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Re: Remember smoking in the cockpit ?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:07 am

My last flight riding on a VC-10 was on BA YYZ-YMX-PIK-MAN, the all Y configured aircraft had non-smoking on the left side and smoking on the right with only an aisle to separate the smokers from the non smokers. It wasn’t an issue as I think the fullest leg only had about 40 people on it. But I can imagine a full flight would be pretty toxic.

I didn’t care as I was just happy to be on a VC-10 again!
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Max Q
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Re: Remember smoking in the cockpit ?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:12 am

RetiredWeasel wrote:
Max Q wrote:
Bit of thread drift here but since outflow valves have been mentioned..
The MD80’s we operated had very weak air conditioning packs and poor airflow throughout the aircraft
On the ground in the summer they would get very hot inside, even more so in the cockpit, with the typical long taxi lines departing EWR we would start melting up there
Our solution was to open the cockpit windows then manually close the outflow valve whereupon all the air would rush forward to exit from our windows, the ‘new outflow valve’ it also produced a very respectable cooling breeze


We did similar in the 742 while still in the chocks except the windows didn't open. We'd open the upper deck crew access door and close the outflow valves in the freighter. On the PAX aircraft we may have done that also but as soon as boarding started, we had to close that door--this was all just while waiting in the chocks before pushback.



Fascinating,


If you were to open the overhead escape hatch in the cockpit and close the outflow valves would that have a similar affect?
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


Guns and the love of them by a loud minority are a malignant and deadly cancer inflicted on American society
 
RetiredWeasel
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Re: Remember smoking in the cockpit ?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:51 pm

Max Q wrote:
RetiredWeasel wrote:

We did similar in the 742 while still in the chocks except the windows didn't open. We'd open the upper deck crew access door and close the outflow valves in the freighter. On the PAX aircraft we may have done that also but as soon as boarding started, we had to close that door--this was all just while waiting in the chocks before pushback.



Fascinating,


If you were to open the overhead escape hatch in the cockpit and close the outflow valves would that have a similar affect?

Yes, I had forgot about the escape hatch and actually as I think back on it, that was opened more often than the door to get the same effect.
 
Max Q
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Re: Remember smoking in the cockpit ?

Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:50 pm

RetiredWeasel wrote:
Max Q wrote:
RetiredWeasel wrote:

We did similar in the 742 while still in the chocks except the windows didn't open. We'd open the upper deck crew access door and close the outflow valves in the freighter. On the PAX aircraft we may have done that also but as soon as boarding started, we had to close that door--this was all just while waiting in the chocks before pushback.



Fascinating,


If you were to open the overhead escape hatch in the cockpit and close the outflow valves would that have a similar affect?

Yes, I had forgot about the escape hatch and actually as I think back on it, that was opened more often than the door to get the same effect.



Very interesting RW


Seen quite a few pics of the 747 parked with that hatch open
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Loran
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Re: Remember smoking in the cockpit ?

Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:03 pm

Last time I have experienced smoking in the cockpit was onboard Barq Aviation's L-1011 N164AT in early 2013 on a troop charter to Pakistan. I think the entire crew of over 25 (incl. ground engineers, etc.) came to the cockpit to smoke, you can maybe remotely imagine what that meant to a non-smoker like me. It was insane. :faint: :ill: Nevertheless a great flight...

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Loran
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