Max Q
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Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

TKS anti icing systems

Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:24 am

There’s a few aircraft that use this design, basically it incorporates a tank inside the airframe that contains fluid which is ported to the wing when activated it keeps the wing clear of ice


It always seemed a dubious feature to me, the most obvious limitation being your anti ice protection is only good until this tank is depleted


It also has a weight penalty that goes with carting this fluid around, furthermore I read an article recently about the Hawker business jet, apparently after using this system the anti icing fluid will leak from the ports in the leading edge of the wing for hours after landing


Can anyone state an advantage of this system ?


The best protection against ice is a hot wing, followed by de icing boots in my opinion
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


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GalaxyFlyer
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Re: TKS anti icing systems

Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:50 pm

Useful only if you couldn’t use hot air or boots. Mooneys used it for that reason. The Hawker had TKS because it needed every bit of thrust without adding on bleeds. I think the tank could be refilled in-flight. (“Excuse me, may I have your martini?”)

Edit: the Citation SII had TKS, IIRC, for the same reasons and boots were considered déclassé.

GF
 
Max Q
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Re: TKS anti icing systems

Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:20 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Useful only if you couldn’t use hot air or boots. Mooneys used it for that reason. The Hawker had TKS because it needed every bit of thrust without adding on bleeds. I think the tank could be refilled in-flight. (“Excuse me, may I have your martini?”)

Edit: the Citation SII had TKS, IIRC, for the same reasons and boots were considered déclassé.

GF



Interesting,

I can’t imagine that operators would like this system, I didn’t realize the Hawker has to use it because of a lack of thrust
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


Guns are a malignant cancer that are destroying our society
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: TKS anti icing systems

Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:35 am

Well, the 125 had the thrust to make Part 25 (CAR 4b on the original one) but not enough extra. Same for a lot of bizjets, some used boots (even the Lockheed Jetstar); DeHaviland invented TKS.

GF
 
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Francoflier
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Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 12:27 pm

Re: TKS anti icing systems

Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:53 pm

Bleed-heated leading edges are indeed the best solution, but very power hungry and not really suited to smaller aircraft.

I don't really have a prefence between boots and liquid-based deice/anti-ice systems. I think both are sub-par solutions. Boots are a pain to maintain (i.e. expensive) and must be used correctly to be effective.

Ironically, the real issue is that airplanes that can't afford powerful deicing systems are the ones that need them the most.
Better to stay out of icing conditions if at all possible...
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
CosmicCruiser
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Re: TKS anti icing systems

Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:10 pm

I flew a -125 many years ago, '80-'81, and I don't remember it ever being a big deal. Usually used more in the T/O / LDG phase. GalaxyFlyer was right re: lack of power issues. I was lucky in that the one I flew had 731s on it. We could T/O and go straight to 410. But then sat there at .75! LOL
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: TKS anti icing systems

Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:09 pm

The original Vipers were the real drivers here, while potentially 731s would have allowed the 125 -400, designing new heated wings might have been cost prohibitive.

As to boots, I flew Citations for 4 years and 2,400 hours in the US Northeast and the boots weren’t that often used, cowls were heated. I just never saw that much ice buildup. Now, flying Barons and Aztecs thru a New England winter were a whole ‘nother story.

GF
 
Max Q
Topic Author
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Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: TKS anti icing systems

Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:29 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
The original Vipers were the real drivers here, while potentially 731s would have allowed the 125 -400, designing new heated wings might have been cost prohibitive.

As to boots, I flew Citations for 4 years and 2,400 hours in the US Northeast and the boots weren’t that often used, cowls were heated. I just never saw that much ice buildup. Now, flying Barons and Aztecs thru a New England winter were a whole ‘nother story.

GF




In my check flying days I picked up a lot of ice on some of the hairier nights, the Baron was a simply outstanding aircraft, several of ours had no boots and it could accumulate a LOT and still bring you home


I’d do my best to avoid it but there were times that was impossible, just flew the approach as fast as possible with no flap

Couple of times I couldn’t see to taxi though !
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


Guns are a malignant cancer that are destroying our society

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