Overthecascades
Topic Author
Posts: 192
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NW 88 flight back in the day

Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:01 pm

I have an impression that this flight was significant in terms taking the US-China flying to the next level, through the DTW hub and over the North Pole. Is that an exaggeration? Wanted to ask here since no answer on the general forum. Thx.
 
BravoOne
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Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: NW 88 flight back in the day

Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:10 pm

Sorry but you will need to be more definitive than what ou have posted so far. Do you think everyone here knows what NW 88 means?
 
BravoOne
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Re: NW 88 flight back in the day

Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:14 pm

I tried to look up a reference for this flight but was unable to find anything. I assume that might have been an inaugural polar ops flight for NW? If so you would have to go back further to SAS as they were the original polar operator in the polar region. Started with the DC6B and went on through the DC 7C and then the DC8. Anything that NW did was quickly followed by other operators within days, not weeks. Pan Am did several polar flights utilizing INS in the 707-320B (LGW to SEA) back around 1974 or so.
 
Overthecascades
Topic Author
Posts: 192
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 3:13 pm

Re: NW 88 flight back in the day

Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:57 pm

BravoOne wrote:
Sorry but you will need to be more definitive than what ou have posted so far. Do you think everyone here knows what NW 88 means?


Sorry this was NW 87/88 flight DTW-PEK round trip, which operated back in 1990s I believe, nonstop, polar route and had great success.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: NW 88 flight back in the day

Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:46 am

So did all the other airlines, decades before.
 
RetiredWeasel
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Re: NW 88 flight back in the day

Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:01 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
So did all the other airlines, decades before.


Actually, it wasn't until Russia only opened up their airspace for polar flights in 1998. NW, United, and Continental were the first US Airlines to fly on these new routes in '99. Cathy Pacific flew some demo flights in '98 and assume they started revenue flights on the routes around the same time. Here's an article that touches all those points.
https://www.aviationtoday.com/2002/04/0 ... ar-routes/
 
BravoOne
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Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: NW 88 flight back in the day

Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:30 pm

RetiredWeasel wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
So did all the other airlines, decades before.


Actually, it wasn't until Russia only opened up their airspace for polar flights in 1998. NW, United, and Continental were the first US Airlines to fly on these new routes in '99. Cathy Pacific flew some demo flights in '98 and assume they started revenue flights on the routes around the same time. Here's an article that touches all those points.
https://www.aviationtoday.com/2002/04/0 ... ar-routes/


Trying to imagine what aircraft and city pairs CAL would have used?
 
RetiredWeasel
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Re: NW 88 flight back in the day

Sat Nov 02, 2019 4:48 pm

BravoOne wrote:

Trying to imagine what aircraft and city pairs CAL would have used?


I re-read the article I linked and it just says United and NW flew the initial routes back then as far as US airlines go. Continental during the time of the article (2002) was flying Newark-HKG on a polar route.
 
BravoOne
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Re: NW 88 flight back in the day

Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:59 pm

RetiredWeasel wrote:
BravoOne wrote:

Trying to imagine what aircraft and city pairs CAL would have used?


I re-read the article I linked and it just says United and NW flew the initial routes back then as far as US airlines go. Continental during the time of the article (2002) was flying Newark-HKG on a polar route.



Thanks. I didn't know the -200B could make that.
 
mmo
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Re: NW 88 flight back in the day

Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:59 pm

BravoOne wrote:
\


Thanks. I didn't know the -200B could make that.


The 200B would have no problems making that route at all. The configuration NW had on the 200Bs they could pretty much take full fuel, full pax and 10 tons of cargo and take off at MTOW at normal temps. No wind, it's about 5800 NM over the pole.
If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane!
 
BravoOne
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Re: NW 88 flight back in the day

Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:59 pm

mmo wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
\


Thanks. I didn't know the -200B could make that.


The 200B would have no problems making that route at all. The configuration NW had on the 200Bs they could pretty much take full fuel, full pax and 10 tons of cargo and take off at MTOW at normal temps. No wind, it's about 5800 NM over the pole.


Damn....that's better than I would have ever imagined. We use to occassionsly make a tech stop in TPE when going from LAX HKG (MD11), and many times there would be a UAL 747-400 on the quick turn ramp doing the same thing. This was of course during the heaviest winds of the coast of Japan. I seem to recall now that when the -200B came out, the 747SP was not really needed anymore.

Thanks :bigthumbsup: :bigthumbsup:
 
mmo
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Re: NW 88 flight back in the day

Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:11 am

A Q powered 200 would do JFK-NRT pretty much full except during very high headwinds. An R powered 200 would pretty much do it with a slight reduction in payload. IIRC, the most re-releases I have had was 3, and that was due to a major difference in forecast winds. If my memory is correct 23,000 Lbs was required if there weather in NRT, that allowed the guy on short final to divert to HND. Other diversions were CTS or even a preplanned fuel stop in ANC which only added about 45 minutes to the flight.
If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane!
 
Max Q
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Re: NW 88 flight back in the day

Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:07 am

BravoOne wrote:
I tried to look up a reference for this flight but was unable to find anything. I assume that might have been an inaugural polar ops flight for NW? If so you would have to go back further to SAS as they were the original polar operator in the polar region. Started with the DC6B and went on through the DC 7C and then the DC8. Anything that NW did was quickly followed by other operators within days, not weeks. Pan Am did several polar flights utilizing INS in the 707-320B (LGW to SEA) back around 1974 or so.




Pan Am had service out of Gatwick ?
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


Guns are a malignant cancer that are destroying our society
 
BravoOne
Posts: 3686
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: NW 88 flight back in the day

Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:14 pm

Max Q wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
I tried to look up a reference for this flight but was unable to find anything. I assume that might have been an inaugural polar ops flight for NW? If so you would have to go back further to SAS as they were the original polar operator in the polar region. Started with the DC6B and went on through the DC 7C and then the DC8. Anything that NW did was quickly followed by other operators within days, not weeks. Pan Am did several polar flights utilizing INS in the 707-320B (LGW to SEA) back around 1974 or so.




Pan Am had service out of Gatwick ?


Yea that was a typo but I waited to long to edit it. Was wondering how long it would take to get a reply!
 
BravoOne
Posts: 3686
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: NW 88 flight back in the day

Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:18 pm

mmo wrote:
A Q powered 200 would do JFK-NRT pretty much full except during very high headwinds. An R powered 200 would pretty much do it with a slight reduction in payload. IIRC, the most re-releases I have had was 3, and that was due to a major difference in forecast winds. If my memory is correct 23,000 Lbs was required if there weather in NRT, that allowed the guy on short final to divert to HND. Other diversions were CTS or even a preplanned fuel stop in ANC which only added about 45 minutes to the flight.


Yes I seem to recall the NWA redispatch clogged the HF frequency for about 15 minutes!!
 
BravoOne
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Re: NW 88 flight back in the day

Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:13 pm

BravoOne wrote:
Max Q wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
I tried to look up a reference for this flight but was unable to find anything. I assume that might have been an inaugural polar ops flight for NW? If so you would have to go back further to SAS as they were the original polar operator in the polar region. Started with the DC6B and went on through the DC 7C and then the DC8. Anything that NW did was quickly followed by other operators within days, not weeks. Pan Am did several polar flights utilizing INS in the 707-320B (LGW to SEA) back around 1974 or so.




Pan Am had service out of Gatwick ?


Yea that was a typo but I waited to long to edit it. Was wondering how long it would take to get a reply!


Actually I see that Pan Am had service out of Gatwick in the mid eighties with the L15. Looks like TWA did that as well briefly.
 
Max Q
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Re: NW 88 flight back in the day

Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:27 am

BravoOne wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
Max Q wrote:



Pan Am had service out of Gatwick ?


Yea that was a typo but I waited to long to edit it. Was wondering how long it would take to get a reply!


Actually I see that Pan Am had service out of Gatwick in the mid eighties with the L15. Looks like TWA did that as well briefly.



I had a vague memory of that actually



Didn’t think it was a typo!
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


Guns are a malignant cancer that are destroying our society
 
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aeromoe
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Re: NW 88 flight back in the day

Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:30 pm

BravoOne wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
Max Q wrote:



Pan Am had service out of Gatwick ?


Yea that was a typo but I waited to long to edit it. Was wondering how long it would take to get a reply!


Actually I see that Pan Am had service out of Gatwick in the mid eighties with the L15. Looks like TWA did that as well briefly.


At a minimum PA did IAH-LGW and TWA STL-LGW.
AA AC AS BA BD BF BN BR BY B6 CO CP(2) DG DL EA EI EN FL FT F9 HA HP ICX JI JQ J7 KE KS LH MC NW OC OO OZ(1) OZ(2) PA PI PT QF QQ RM RO RV(1) RV(2) RW SK SM SQ S4 TI TS TW UA UK US UZ VS VX WA WN WS W7 XV YV YX(2) ZZ 9K
 
USNL1011250
Posts: 13
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Re: NW 88 flight back in the day

Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:43 am

Does anyone know if ANA had load restrictions on their IAD-NRT and later JFK-NRT 742s with CF6-50E2 engines? They started IAD in 1986 and not sure on JFK.

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