airplaneguy
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Posts: 49
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This looks dangerous!

Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:04 pm

https://imgproc.airliners.net/photos/ai ... .jpg?v=v40

What's going on here!?! Isn't rotating this late dangerous? Apparently there's a displaced threshold, but is it factored in when considering takeoff run? Is this normal?

TIA.
 
thepinkmachine
Posts: 395
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:43 pm

Re: This looks dangerous!

Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:28 pm

If the runway behind the displaced threshold is long enough and able to support the airplane, it’s legit.

I’ve done it too...
"Tell my wife I am trawling Atlantis - and I still have my hands on the wheel…"
 
tommy1808
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Re: This looks dangerous!

Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:04 pm

thepinkmachine wrote:
If the runway behind the displaced threshold is long enough and able to support the airplane, it’s legit.

I’ve done it too...


MAD 36L ... maybe 2k feet or more behind it.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: This looks dangerous!

Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:07 pm

The displaced threshold only matters to aircraft landing the other way. The runway beyond it in this direction is eminently usable for takeoffs.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
jupiter2
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Re: This looks dangerous!

Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:25 pm

Looks like a stock standard A340-300 departure, what's the problem :lol:
 
Max Q
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Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: This looks dangerous!

Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:27 am

Depends, if he’s taking off, ok.


Landing, not so much..
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
Yikes!
Posts: 348
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2001 4:51 pm

Re: This looks dangerous!

Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:13 am

Perfectly OK as a balanced takeoff with 35' AGL being height at end of TORA.
 
tommy1808
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Re: This looks dangerous!

Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:18 am

Starlionblue wrote:
The displaced threshold only matters to aircraft landing the other way. The runway beyond it in this direction is eminently usable for takeoffs.


mmm.. nope. Its perfectly useable for take off performance ....

Look at DTM (or a gazillian other Airports):

TORA RWY 06/24: 2,000 m/6,562 ft
TODA RWY 06/24: 2,060 m/6,759 ft
ASDA RWY 06/24: 2,000 m/6,562 ft
LDA RWY 06/24: 1,700 m/5,577 ft

The Runway is physically 2120 meters long, the space between the thresholds is 1700 meters ....

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: This looks dangerous!

Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:31 am

tommy1808 wrote:
Starlionblue wrote:
The displaced threshold only matters to aircraft landing the other way. The runway beyond it in this direction is eminently usable for takeoffs.


mmm.. nope. Its perfectly useable for take off performance ....

Look at DTM (or a gazillian other Airports):

TORA RWY 06/24: 2,000 m/6,562 ft
TODA RWY 06/24: 2,060 m/6,759 ft
ASDA RWY 06/24: 2,000 m/6,562 ft
LDA RWY 06/24: 1,700 m/5,577 ft

The Runway is physically 2120 meters long, the space between the thresholds is 1700 meters ....

best regards
Thomas


That's what I said. "The runway beyond it in this direction* is eminently usable for takeoffs."

* The direction being 36L. The displaced threshold of 18R is 814 meters down the runway, meaning 814 meters of distance available for takeoffs beyond the white line.


Also, please embed the image if possible. :)

Image
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
tommy1808
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Re: This looks dangerous!

Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:12 am

Starlionblue wrote:
That's what I said. "The runway beyond it in this direction* is eminently usable for takeoffs."


i should wait for my coffee to kick in before posting.... sorry... i can´t even recall what i read..."irrelevant" i guess.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: This looks dangerous!

Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:57 am

tommy1808 wrote:
Starlionblue wrote:
That's what I said. "The runway beyond it in this direction* is eminently usable for takeoffs."


i should wait for my coffee to kick in before posting.... sorry... i can´t even recall what i read..."irrelevant" i guess.

best regards
Thomas


No worries. Coffee is key. :D
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
tommy1808
Posts: 11647
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Re: This looks dangerous!

Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:36 am

Starlionblue wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
Starlionblue wrote:
That's what I said. "The runway beyond it in this direction* is eminently usable for takeoffs."


i should wait for my coffee to kick in before posting.... sorry... i can´t even recall what i read..."irrelevant" i guess.

best regards
Thomas


No worries. Coffee is key. :D


"Our coffee, which you are in the cup, hallowed be your caffeine, your roasting degree come, your brewing process be done, as in the morning, so also at work. And deliver us from fatigue, for thine is the bean and the water and the strength for ever. ARABICA!"

To stay somewhat on Topic..... this looks dangerous: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThoZNxy2JZk

The famous IL76 in Australia....

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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airportugal310
Posts: 3517
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Re: This looks dangerous!

Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:50 pm

tommy1808 wrote:

To stay somewhat on Topic..... this looks dangerous: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThoZNxy2JZk

The famous IL76 in Australia....


Ah yes....who could forget the ole "vodka burner" :rotfl:
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
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readytotaxi
Posts: 6845
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Re: This looks dangerous!

Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:25 pm

He really was using the curve of the earth to take off. :o
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AndrewJM70
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:08 pm

Re: This looks dangerous!

Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:33 pm

Perfectly fine at MAD with almost 1km available from this point.

A little bit tighter elsewhere!

https://images.app.goo.gl/s75qxhHAhPMLS3iH6
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: This looks dangerous!

Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:19 am

AndrewJM70 wrote:
Perfectly fine at MAD with almost 1km available from this point.

A little bit tighter elsewhere!

https://images.app.goo.gl/s75qxhHAhPMLS3iH6


I know I harp on about this, but the forum does have picture embedding features, both for Airliners.net pics, and for external ones. And unlike in ye olden days, you don't even have to type the tags in by hand.

:old:



Side note: I never realised that Sam Chui took that picture. He has quite an active aviation/travel channel on YouTube. It includes a few trips on freighters among other interesting tidbits. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfYCRj25JJQ41JGPqiqXmJw
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
citationjet
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Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2003 2:26 am

Re: This looks dangerous!

Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:08 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
He really was using the curve of the earth to take off. :o


Every time I see an A340 takeoff I am reminded that the earth is NOT flat. :spin:
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
LH707330
Posts: 2260
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:27 pm

Re: This looks dangerous!

Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:46 pm

I'd be really curious to see the takeoff numbers for that Il-86. Unless that was a derate, that thing would not have made it off the runway with an engine out after v1.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 4411
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: This looks dangerous!

Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:13 pm

Derate doesn’t change anything UNLESS the gross weight was entered wrong and was in reality too heavy. I’d suspect improper or late rotation, but quads are often, at the WAT limit, limited by all engine ground run than OEI considerations. (115% of all engine run)
 
timh4000
Posts: 319
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:14 pm

Re: This looks dangerous!

Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:51 am

The Russian pilots play a game of chicken with each other. Both pilots have their hands on the yoke they hold the rotation speed to what it is supposed to be. The 1st one to pull back on the yoke loses.

https://youtu.be/ThoZNxy2JZk :D
 
meecrob
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:15 pm

Re: This looks dangerous!

Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:28 pm

LH707330 wrote:
I'd be really curious to see the takeoff numbers for that Il-86. Unless that was a derate, that thing would not have made it off the runway with an engine out after v1.


It definitely would have made it off the runway...with flaming brakes, collapsed nosegear, ruined sheet metal, and a bunch of a.net jokesters saying "it'll buff right out."
 
aviatorcraig
Posts: 553
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:14 pm

Re: This looks dangerous!

Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:01 pm

timh4000 wrote:
The Russian pilots play a game of chicken with each other. Both pilots have their hands on the yoke they hold the rotation speed to what it is supposed to be. The 1st one to pull back on the yoke loses.


What game were they playing here?...

https://youtu.be/XUtYlR28Yb4
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gokmengs
Posts: 1254
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:48 am

Re: This looks dangerous!

Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:41 pm

Starlionblue wrote:
AndrewJM70 wrote:
Perfectly fine at MAD with almost 1km available from this point.

A little bit tighter elsewhere!

https://images.app.goo.gl/s75qxhHAhPMLS3iH6


I know I harp on about this, but the forum does have picture embedding features, both for Airliners.net pics, and for external ones. And unlike in ye olden days, you don't even have to type the tags in by hand.

:old:



Side note: I never realised that Sam Chui took that picture. He has quite an active aviation/travel channel on YouTube. It includes a few trips on freighters among other interesting tidbits. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfYCRj25JJQ41JGPqiqXmJw

Back in the old days of anet Sam Chui would have the top photo like every month, he had great air to air take off shots from LAX etc, then he followed the dream did some videos and voila he is paid to fly new seats and inaugrals. :)
Yaşa Mustafa Kemal Paşa Yaşa, Adın Yazılacak Mücevher Taşa
 
timh4000
Posts: 319
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Re: This looks dangerous!

Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:43 am

aviatorcraig wrote:
timh4000 wrote:
The Russian pilots play a game of chicken with each other. Both pilots have their hands on the yoke they hold the rotation speed to what it is supposed to be. The 1st one to pull back on the yoke loses.


What game were they playing here?...

https://youtu.be/XUtYlR28Yb4

Russian redneck pilots goin muddin
 
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ro1960
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Re: This looks dangerous!

Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:12 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
[

To stay somewhat on Topic..... this looks dangerous: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThoZNxy2JZk



The comments (with a genuine aussie accent) at the end are hilarious although maybe a tad inappropriate.
You may like my airport photos:
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CARST
Posts: 1555
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Re: This looks dangerous!

Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:07 pm

The classic A340 lift off... climbing only due to the curvature of the earth. Notice the funny little hairdryers they call engines.
 
leoben
Posts: 17
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Re: This looks dangerous!

Thu Dec 26, 2019 5:58 pm

Rotation point doesnt really matter, as long as it is still on a piece of runway legal to use for takeoff. The point where V1 is reached is the issue. It could be a BIG split and they were committed to going flying a long ways back. Rode the jumpseat out of Key West on a 737-7 w/ static takeoff and could've swore we tickled a couple of the threshold lights on the way out, but V1 was way back at mid-field.
 
spacecadet
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Re: This looks dangerous!

Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:14 am

leoben wrote:
Rotation point doesnt really matter, as long as it is still on a piece of runway legal to use for takeoff.


Rotation point does matter and there's way more to it than just V1. Accelerate-stop distance, engine-out accelerate-go distance, etc. These are all in the FARs in the US. Other countries may have different regulations, I don't know, but you're not going to see a plane taking off legally in the US right at the end of the runway. If that happens, it means somebody miscalculated something and they're probably getting a call from the FAA.

Generally FAA-approved takeoff distances are calculated based on the *longest* of several criteria, so you'd always have the largest safety margin built in. Maybe that doesn't happen in some countries, but I probably wouldn't want to fly there if so.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
VSMUT
Posts: 3437
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: This looks dangerous!

Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:53 am

airportugal310 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

To stay somewhat on Topic..... this looks dangerous: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThoZNxy2JZk

The famous IL76 in Australia....


Ah yes....who could forget the ole "vodka burner" :rotfl:


The truth has a bit more to it though. The ex-Soviet pilots have gotten the takeoff distance and payload down to an exact science. They simply disregard V1, engine failures, MTOM etc. and just calculate how much they can drag off the runway, using 100% of the runway. It definitely isn't unheard of that they fill gaps and hidden spaces in the airframe with contraband. One company offered to fly aid into a warzone in Africa for the UN, free of charge. Everybody cheered them for such a gracious offer, but in reality they were transporting several tons of hidden weapons and ammunition into and conflict diamonds out on every flight.

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