Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
fly2moon
Topic Author
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:21 pm

A321XL ICAO aircraft type designator?

Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:44 pm

I tried looking up ICAO Document 8643 Aircraft Type Designators for A321LR type code as opposed to generic A321NEO type code (A21N) to no avail. Is A321LR considered a separate type vs plain vanilla A321NEO? Once A321XLR becomes available, is it likely to be considered a separate type? Lastly, is there IATA, FAA, ICAO or any other organization that treats A321LR with a separate code? Thanks!
 
User avatar
BWIAirport
Posts: 922
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:29 pm

Re: A321XL ICAO aircraft type designator?

Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:55 pm

I believe the A321LR features the same codes (A21N/32Q) as the standard A321neo. I find that interesting, because the IATA chooses to distinguish between A32X planes with and without sharklets, but considers the LR and standard NEO to be the same. I don't see reason to believe the XLR will be distinguished from any other variety of A321neo.
SWA, UAL, DAL, AWE, ASA, TRS, DLH, CLH, AFR, BAW, EIN, AAL, FFT | E190 DC94 CRJ2 B712 B733 B737 B738 B739 B744 B752 B753 B762 B77W A319 A320 A20N A321 A333 A343 A388 MD88
 
fly2moon
Topic Author
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:21 pm

Re: A321XL ICAO aircraft type designator?

Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:54 am

BWIAirport wrote:
I believe the A321LR features the same codes (A21N/32Q) as the standard A321neo. I find that interesting, because the IATA chooses to distinguish between A32X planes with and without sharklets, but considers the LR and standard NEO to be the same. I don't see reason to believe the XLR will be distinguished from any other variety of A321neo.


I have noticed that, sharklet models were given a code. What makes sharklets stand out more than modifications made to LR and future XLR remains a mystery to me.

ICAO code is also used by some flight tracking sites, making A321LR tracking not possible, at least to my knowledge.
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 20180
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

Re: A321XL ICAO aircraft type designator?

Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:11 am

Do the sharklets increase wing span? Gate space might have something to do with it, but I don't know for sure.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
hitower3
Posts: 188
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:55 am

Re: A321XL ICAO aircraft type designator?

Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:04 am

Starlionblue wrote:
Do the sharklets increase wing span? Gate space might have something to do with it, but I don't know for sure.


Dear Starlionblue,

Yes indeed the added wingspan is quite significant: from 34,10m to 35,80m that is 1,7m more.

Best regards,
Hendric
 
flipdewaf
Posts: 3710
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:28 am

Re: A321XL ICAO aircraft type designator?

Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:20 am

My understanding is that there needs to be a specific designation if either a major dimension (basically overall length or wingspan) change or there is a significant difference in performance in terms of the ability to maneuver or climb or noise footprint. The designation then allows the proper planning to be done.
i.e. 772: both the A and the ER are basically the same externally and perform close enough to each other to be regarded as a single type.
77L has a larger wingspan

I would imagine that there is something specific about the NEO that requires a call out for planning purposes.

Fred
Image
 
StTim
Posts: 3754
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:39 am

Re: A321XL ICAO aircraft type designator?

Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:50 am

flipdewaf wrote:
My understanding is that there needs to be a specific designation if either a major dimension (basically overall length or wingspan) change or there is a significant difference in performance in terms of the ability to maneuver or climb or noise footprint. The designation then allows the proper planning to be done.
i.e. 772: both the A and the ER are basically the same externally and perform close enough to each other to be regarded as a single type.
77L has a larger wingspan

I would imagine that there is something specific about the NEO that requires a call out for planning purposes.

Fred


I suppose it is because it has a significantly smaller noise footprint.
 
User avatar
reidar76
Posts: 532
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:16 pm

Re: A321XL ICAO aircraft type designator?

Sat Dec 21, 2019 9:16 pm

The A321neo can be configured with zero, one, two or three ACTs. For marketing reasons Airbus has branded an A321 with three ACTs as "A321LR". Don't be fooled, it is still just an A321neo.

I can't see any reason why the A321LR should have its own aircraft type designator, other than it would be great to use as a filter on flightrader24.com.
 
tomcat
Posts: 611
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2000 4:14 am

Re: A321XL ICAO aircraft type designator?

Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:15 pm

reidar76 wrote:
The A321neo can be configured with zero, one, two or three ACTs. For marketing reasons Airbus has branded an A321 with three ACTs as "A321LR". Don't be fooled, it is still just an A321neo.

I can't see any reason why the A321LR should have its own aircraft type designator, other than it would be great to use as a filter on flightrader24.com.


It's the increase of the MTOW to 97t that allows the use of the third ACT of the LR. Let's say that the LR is an A321NEO certified with a MTOW of 97t. Not all the airlines are buying the A321NEO with this MTOW. Coming back to the designators discussion, it seems that the increased MTOW of the LR hasn't had a sufficient impact on the performances that would have justified a specific designator.
 
User avatar
reidar76
Posts: 532
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:16 pm

Re: A321XL ICAO aircraft type designator?

Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:01 pm

tomcat wrote:
reidar76 wrote:
The A321neo can be configured with zero, one, two or three ACTs. For marketing reasons Airbus has branded an A321 with three ACTs as "A321LR". Don't be fooled, it is still just an A321neo.

I can't see any reason why the A321LR should have its own aircraft type designator, other than it would be great to use as a filter on flightrader24.com.


It's the increase of the MTOW to 97t that allows the use of the third ACT of the LR. Let's say that the LR is an A321NEO certified with a MTOW of 97t. Not all the airlines are buying the A321NEO with this MTOW. Coming back to the designators discussion, it seems that the increased MTOW of the LR hasn't had a sufficient impact on the performances that would have justified a specific designator.


There are 11 different weight variants of the A321neo. They all have the same designator. The A321neo with a MTOW of 97t is now standard. All A321 with Airbus Cabin Flex (ACF) is a 97t MTOW weight variant. They are easily recognized by having over-wing exits. If a A321neo doesn't have an over-wing exits, it is not a 97t MTOW variant.

A MTOW of 97t is not only needed for long-haul flights, but also for short-haul flights with a high density layout (up to 244 seats). Moving forward there will only be delivered A321neo with 97t MTOW and A321XLR with 101t MTOW. I wonder if the latter will have its own designator. Time will tell.
 
tomcat
Posts: 611
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2000 4:14 am

Re: A321XL ICAO aircraft type designator?

Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:23 pm

reidar76 wrote:
tomcat wrote:
reidar76 wrote:
The A321neo can be configured with zero, one, two or three ACTs. For marketing reasons Airbus has branded an A321 with three ACTs as "A321LR". Don't be fooled, it is still just an A321neo.

I can't see any reason why the A321LR should have its own aircraft type designator, other than it would be great to use as a filter on flightrader24.com.


It's the increase of the MTOW to 97t that allows the use of the third ACT of the LR. Let's say that the LR is an A321NEO certified with a MTOW of 97t. Not all the airlines are buying the A321NEO with this MTOW. Coming back to the designators discussion, it seems that the increased MTOW of the LR hasn't had a sufficient impact on the performances that would have justified a specific designator.


There are 11 different weight variants of the A321neo. They all have the same designator. The A321neo with a MTOW of 97t is now standard. All A321 with Airbus Cabin Flex (ACF) is a 97t MTOW weight variant. They are easily recognized by having over-wing exits. If a A321neo doesn't have an over-wing exits, it is not a 97t MTOW variant.

A MTOW of 97t is not only needed for long-haul flights, but also for short-haul flights with a high density layout (up to 244 seats). Moving forward there will only be delivered A321neo with 97t MTOW and A321XLR with 101t MTOW. I wonder if the latter will have its own designator. Time will tell.


Thanks for these clarifications about the MTOW of the A321.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Airliner1973 and 14 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos