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yyzmdw
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QF A380 LAX Runway Performance

Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:59 am

Was recently watching a spotting video of a QF A380 taking off from LAX, and a spotter in the background commented on how the runway at LAX is hardly long enough for the A388 when fully loaded, and that engine stress from full power takeoffs was part of what contributed to the QF32 SIN-SYD engine failure.

Are either of these claims true? Runway 7L/25R at LAX is nearly 13000 ft long, and LAX is basically at sea level. These flights leave for Australia at night, and I was under the impression that the A380 had good takeoff performance what with its large wing.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: QF A380 LAX Runway Performance

Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:01 am

I don’t fly the A380, but I very much doubt it. Others will be along.

GF
 
BAeRJ100
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Re: QF A380 LAX Runway Performance

Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:07 am

yyzmdw wrote:
engine stress from full power takeoffs was part of what contributed to the QF32 SIN-SYD engine failure.


What a load of rubbish. The engine that failed on QF32 had a manufacturing defect.
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TWA772LR
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Re: QF A380 LAX Runway Performance

Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:21 am

I'm sure Qantas would've dropped the a380 like a hot potato if that were the case.
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airportugal310
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Re: QF A380 LAX Runway Performance

Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:28 am

“Spotters”...says it all
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
Prost
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Re: QF A380 LAX Runway Performance

Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:42 am

With that huge wing I’m surprised she doesn’t take off taxiing to the runway.
 
ikramerica
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Re: QF A380 LAX Runway Performance

Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:57 am

Just about anything could depart LAX fully laden.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
timpdx
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Re: QF A380 LAX Runway Performance

Sat Dec 28, 2019 5:12 am

If an A380 struggles at LAX, at sea level, where temps rarely exceed 25C, and are mostly under 20C, then Airbus really messed up in their calculations.
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Qf648
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Re: QF A380 LAX Runway Performance

Sat Dec 28, 2019 5:39 am

This has some truth to it. Qf is the only operator of the high output Trent 900’s to permit full weight takeoffs from lax.
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: QF A380 LAX Runway Performance

Sat Dec 28, 2019 5:50 am

I’m not an expert by any stretch, but it seems a strange observation, the A380 is actually over-winged (Airbus built in some capacity for a -900 stretch) and so the A380 has a very low landing speed for a modern airliner. Four-engines aircraft typically have good hot/high performance to boot. I’m pretty sure that the runways at LAX are completely sufficient for any A380 to take off at MTOW.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: QF A380 LAX Runway Performance

Sat Dec 28, 2019 5:52 am

Qf648 wrote:
This has some truth to it. Qf is the only operator of the high output Trent 900’s to permit full weight takeoffs from lax.

That was because apparently they had to prepare to use the short runway that LAX had, and that was before the extensions that took place recently.

And also EK has the higher thrust version of Trent 900 as well.

Michael
 
smartplane
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Re: QF A380 LAX Runway Performance

Sat Dec 28, 2019 6:08 am

RR reward prudent engine use, and LAX encourage low noise, so some alignment there to use the runway available, rather than perform an air show takeoff.
 
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Slug71
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Re: QF A380 LAX Runway Performance

Sat Dec 28, 2019 6:27 am

I'll call BS to this. I flew QF from LAX in an A380 in June and I was surprised at how quick the rotation happened. Granted it wasn't completely full, but still. Almost certain it went up faster than the few 747 flights I've taken out of LAX.
 
Max Q
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Re: QF A380 LAX Runway Performance

Sat Dec 28, 2019 6:35 am

What most people dont understand when they see a jet transport use most of a long runway is that very length is being used to allow the maximum permissible reduction in take off thrust


Minimizing expensive engine wear by maximizing use of available runway is standard industry practice

While it may appear the aircraft in question is just ‘barely making it’ the reality is that all performance requirements are met at this reduced thrust setting even if an engine fails


In fact normally in the event of such a failure you would not increase thrust on the remaining engine(s) or have any need to
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


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Redbellyguppy
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Re: QF A380 LAX Runway Performance

Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:01 am

Last Christmas I took a little trip to Australia with my family and because of a little professional courtesy (and three stockings full of candy) the captain stopped by during his rest period. He told me that a fully loaded a380 could do lax to Mel, on the hottest day of the summer, from the shorter runway 24L, with maximum derated thrust. He quipped... I hope you enjoy your ride on our vagina... I spit out my drink. Your what? You heard me. Looks like hell on the outside but feels so good inside. He punched my arm, smiled, and left.
 
astuteman
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Re: QF A380 LAX Runway Performance

Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:17 am

yyzmdw wrote:
Was recently watching a spotting video of a QF A380 taking off from LAX, and a spotter in the background commented on how the runway at LAX is hardly long enough for the A388 when fully loaded, and that engine stress from full power takeoffs was part of what contributed to the QF32 SIN-SYD engine failure.

Are either of these claims true? Runway 7L/25R at LAX is nearly 13000 ft long, and LAX is basically at sea level. These flights leave for Australia at night, and I was under the impression that the A380 had good takeoff performance what with its large wing.


We could always just look at the technical data...…..

https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/support ... stics.html

At a 570t MTOW, the aircraft will only need 9,500 ft of runway to take off
.
The A380 ACAP actually shows that at sea level, an A380 could take off at 620 tonnes from LAX's 13 000ft runway - but of course that is way beyond its MTOW.

For the 748...

https://www.boeing.com/resources/boeing ... /747_8.pdf

At 445t MTOW, the 748 needs 10,250 ft of runway at sea level to take off

The spotter was talking nonsense.
The A380 has superb field performance - it was engineered for far higher weights
And Yes, QF32 was a manufacturing defect in an oil pipe - nothing to do with stressing the engines.

Rgds
 
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JerseyFlyer
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Re: QF A380 LAX Runway Performance

Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:38 am

I have seen a couple of A380 air show displays. Amazing slow low tight turns, you wonder why it does not drop out of the sky. I would definitely trust that wing to lift me out of LAX!
 
sciing
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Re: QF A380 LAX Runway Performance

Sat Dec 28, 2019 1:56 pm

The longest A380 flight from DRS to SYD, took of from a runway which is just 9351 ft long. The aircraft was likely at fuel limit, but without any load, so I expect it to be just 25-50t below MTOW.
 
426Shadow
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Re: QF A380 LAX Runway Performance

Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:38 pm

What does the 747 have to do with this? Anyone with a brain knows it is not by any means STOL. This is just another chance for Boeing bashing apparently for some people.
We are all just fanboys, our opinions don't make or break businesses.
 
zuckie13
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Re: QF A380 LAX Runway Performance

Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:46 am

Max Q wrote:
What most people dont understand when they see a jet transport use most of a long runway is that very length is being used to allow the maximum permissible reduction in take off thrust


Minimizing expensive engine wear by maximizing use of available runway is standard industry practice

While it may appear the aircraft in question is just ‘barely making it’ the reality is that all performance requirements are met at this reduced thrust setting even if an engine fails


In fact normally in the event of such a failure you would not increase thrust on the remaining engine(s) or have any need to


Exactly, no reason not to use all of the available runway and save the wear. When a 737-700 at BWI uses 8000 ft of runway on a 3/4 full flight to ALB its only because they couldn't derate enough to use any more.
 
sciing
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Re: QF A380 LAX Runway Performance

Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:32 am

426Shadow wrote:
What does the 747 have to do with this? Anyone with a brain knows it is not by any means STOL. This is just another chance for Boeing bashing apparently for some people.

It was simply for comparison.
Nobody bashed the Queen!
 
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crimsonchin
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Re: QF A380 LAX Runway Performance

Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:04 pm

426Shadow wrote:
What does the 747 have to do with this? Anyone with a brain knows it is not by any means STOL. This is just another chance for Boeing bashing apparently for some people.


For comparison? If you're this sensitive about the 747 merely being mentioned (and not even in an unflattering life) how do you deal with actual real life struggles?
 
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lightsaber
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Re: QF A380 LAX Runway Performance

Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:54 am

Qf648 wrote:
This has some truth to it. Qf is the only operator of the high output Trent 900’s to permit full weight takeoffs from lax.

With the expected tail winds (takeoffs over ocean unless winds are elevated).


Lightsaber
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LAX772LR
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Re: QF A380 LAX Runway Performance

Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:32 am

Qf648 wrote:
This has some truth to it. Qf is the only operator of the high output Trent 900’s to permit full weight takeoffs from lax.

And yet, QF doesn't even elect to use the longer runways at LAX, and almost always departs 24L due to expediency.



astuteman wrote:
The A380 ACAP actually shows that at sea level, an A380 could take off at 620 tonnes from LAX's 13 000ft runway - but of course that is way beyond its MTOW.

That, and A380s "can't" use 25R (the long runway).

Of course they technically can, but due to spacing, you'd have to shut down the primary outbound taxiway.... so you'll never see A380s on it.
They almost exclusively use the far shorter 24R and 24L, with very occasional takeoffs on 25L (CZ and EK sometimes use it) and extremely rare arrivals thereupon as well.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: QF A380 LAX Runway Performance

Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:57 am

Simply put, the bozos who here spotting were inaccurate.

We flew on a 744 from LAX-ICN that clocked in at about 13 hours (plus reserves/diversion fuel), so we weren’t exactly light.

We used 24L and were off the ground in about 7,000 ft. I don’t know if it was a reduced takeoff thrust or not, but point being, the A380 has better takeoff performance than my beloved 747-400 and we EASILY got off 24L.

Heavies can basically take off from 3 runways at LAX without any issues.

I love the 747, but am getting props to the A380, because I can be objective.
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