ChinusGomes
Topic Author
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:55 am

Have commercial pilots gone through CME/solar flare training/should they???

Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:25 am

Have commercial pilots of major carriers around the world gone through major CME/solar fare? I.e. Training for what to do in the event of a major CME/major solar flare hitting Earth whilst they're airborne? A scenario could include electronics failing, losing power and having to glide as the plane loses fuel, possibly over water or over land?

If not, should all commercial pilots of major carriers be required - or has similar routine training already been undertaken?
 
bluecrew
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:13 am

Re: Have commercial pilots gone through CME/solar flare training/should they???

Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:34 am

ChinusGomes wrote:
Have commercial pilots of major carriers around the world gone through major CME/solar fare? I.e. Training for what to do in the event of a major CME/major solar flare hitting Earth whilst they're airborne? A scenario could include electronics failing, losing power and having to glide as the plane loses fuel, possibly over water or over land?

If not, should all commercial pilots of major carriers be required - or has similar routine training already been undertaken?

Never had it, never heard of it.
Assume it would be handled the same as an electrical failure. Hit the QRH and find somewhere to put the plane down.
To be honest, not sure it would fit within the calculation. 25 hours for recurrent spread over 3ish days... does FlightOps want to spend an hour talking about and 2 hours in the sim on something that probably won't happen?

I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's just not something I'd want to sacrifice say... V1 cuts for.
 
snasteve
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Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 1:58 am

Re: Have commercial pilots gone through CME/solar flare training/should they???

Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:11 am

ChinusGomes wrote:
Have commercial pilots of major carriers around the world gone through major CME/solar fare? I.e. Training for what to do in the event of a major CME/major solar flare hitting Earth whilst they're airborne? A scenario could include electronics failing, losing power and having to glide as the plane loses fuel, possibly over water or over land?

If not, should all commercial pilots of major carriers be required - or has similar routine training already been undertaken?


Fortunately we have a satellite SOHO (operated jointly by the ESA & NASA) tasked to monitor Solar activity so we would likely have several hours to prepare if it appears a large CME will collide with the Earth. No such warning though for anything coming from deep space. :/
 
kalvado
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Re: Have commercial pilots gone through CME/solar flare training/should they???

Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:30 am

Any of those solar events are fairly slow, there are warnings at least a day in advance. reroute of polar flights is probably the biggest thing. Possible loss of satcom and gps - bad, but not enough to fall out of the sky.
I don't see how engines would stop or fuel would leak, there are not enough fields to cause that over 80 m wingspan.
 
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zeke
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Re: Have commercial pilots gone through CME/solar flare training/should they???

Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:59 am

ChinusGomes wrote:
Have commercial pilots of major carriers around the world gone through major CME/solar fare? I


Pilots flying polar routes will have received specific training including contingency procedures for loss of comms due solar activity.

Increased solar activity will not impact the aircraft operation.

kalvado wrote:
Possible loss of satcom and gps - bad, but not enough to fall out of the sky. .


No satcom over the poles anyway we use HF datalink. HF does go down sometimes due to atmospheric disturbances, just use the standard contingency procedures.

The polar region is not that empty of aircraft, if you really need to you can relay via VHF.
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kalvado
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Re: Have commercial pilots gone through CME/solar flare training/should they???

Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:20 am

zeke wrote:

kalvado wrote:
Possible loss of satcom and gps - bad, but not enough to fall out of the sky. .


No satcom over the poles anyway we use HF datalink. HF does go down sometimes due to atmospheric disturbances, just use the standard contingency procedures.

The polar region is not that empty of aircraft, if you really need to you can relay via VHF.

My point was more that radio comms are affected most, especially satellite and long distance, but that is not something requiring instant response. Pretty much as you said.
I can see major events affecting gps globally, that could be the biggest effect from my perspective. Line of sight radio between atc and pilots.... I don't believe it will be totally off no matter what happens in upper atmosphere.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Have commercial pilots gone through CME/solar flare training/should they???

Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:48 pm

kalvado wrote:
zeke wrote:

kalvado wrote:
Possible loss of satcom and gps - bad, but not enough to fall out of the sky. .


No satcom over the poles anyway we use HF datalink. HF does go down sometimes due to atmospheric disturbances, just use the standard contingency procedures.

The polar region is not that empty of aircraft, if you really need to you can relay via VHF.

My point was more that radio comms are affected most, especially satellite and long distance, but that is not something requiring instant response. Pretty much as you said.
I can see major events affecting gps globally, that could be the biggest effect from my perspective. Line of sight radio between atc and pilots.... I don't believe it will be totally off no matter what happens in upper atmosphere.


Loss of GPS would just result in the FMS using IRS or DME/DME position without problem. Accuracy plenty good for enroute.
 
BravoOne
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Re: Have commercial pilots gone through CME/solar flare training/should they???

Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:12 pm

Iridium gives you coverage over the top and many airlines are starting to use it above 80N inlieu of Inmarsat or HF datatlink. Cheaper as well.

To my knpwledge all polar ops authorizations include space weather and its effects on crews and operational limitations imposed.
 
ChinusGomes
Topic Author
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:55 am

Re: Have commercial pilots gone through CME/solar flare training/should they???

Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:17 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
kalvado wrote:
zeke wrote:



No satcom over the poles anyway we use HF datalink. HF does go down sometimes due to atmospheric disturbances, just use the standard contingency procedures.

The polar region is not that empty of aircraft, if you really need to you can relay via VHF.
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My point was more that radio comms are affected most, especially satellite and long distance, but that is not something requiring instant response. Pretty much as you said.
I can see major events affecting gps globally, that could be the biggest effect from my perspective. Line of sight radio between atc and pilots.... I don't believe it will be totally off no matter what happens in upper atmosphere.


Loss of GPS would just result in the FMS using IRS or DME/DME position without problem. Accuracy plenty good for enroute.



i agree!!

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