Leej
Topic Author
Posts: 376
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2001 10:39 pm

A320 Series Spoilers

Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:12 pm

Intrigued me for years, finally decided to post the question! On (at least) the A320/1 series: The inboard, and the first outboard spoiler. Some seem to have an additional trailing edge 'fillet' for want of a better word. And some don't. I thought at first it might have something to do with the A321, having different slotted flaps, but it doesn't seem to be the case. For better visualisation:
Without fillet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdspsWNvi_8
&
With fillet:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_-Zb60J7rI

It looks like a small strip has been added to the spoiler. Answers on a postcard please!!!
 
mxaxai
Posts: 1266
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:29 am

Re: A320 Series Spoilers

Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:36 pm

Can you provide an A320 with / an A321 without the extra trailing edge? All photos I've seen have that difference between the two types, but all A320 look the same (and all A321). Might be to help the larger A321 brake.
 
Leej
Topic Author
Posts: 376
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2001 10:39 pm

Re: A320 Series Spoilers

Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:25 pm

mxaxai wrote:
Can you provide an A320 with / an A321 without the extra trailing edge? All photos I've seen have that difference between the two types, but all A320 look the same (and all A321). Might be to help the larger A321 brake.


Think I'm going a bit la la. So here's an A320 with
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6ZpIEMKO1k

Looks like all A321 have. My mistake! But obvs incorporated into newer A320 models. Just seems such an insignificant change - would that extra spoiler / lift dump area make that much difference?
 
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ikolkyo
Posts: 2778
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:43 pm

Re: A320 Series Spoilers

Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:55 pm

Leej wrote:
mxaxai wrote:
Can you provide an A320 with / an A321 without the extra trailing edge? All photos I've seen have that difference between the two types, but all A320 look the same (and all A321). Might be to help the larger A321 brake.


Think I'm going a bit la la. So here's an A320 with
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6ZpIEMKO1k

Looks like all A321 have. My mistake! But obvs incorporated into newer A320 models. Just seems such an insignificant change - would that extra spoiler / lift dump area make that much difference?


Might be apart of the SHARP kit for the A320 which is now standard on at least the neo I believe.
 
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RRTrent
Posts: 463
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:12 am

Re: A320 Series Spoilers

Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:29 pm

As mentioned above, its the SHARP kit. It uses the aileron as an additional spoiler on landing and is available on all A32X models (also as an upgrade package).
 
flipdewaf
Posts: 3156
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:28 am

Re: A320 Series Spoilers

Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:41 pm

RRTrent wrote:
As mentioned above, its the SHARP kit. It uses the aileron as an additional spoiler on landing and is available on all A32X models (also as an upgrade package).

I cant watch the video but is this something that is a simple change part and then a software change?

Fred
Image
 
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RRTrent
Posts: 463
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:12 am

Re: A320 Series Spoilers

Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:50 pm

flipdewaf wrote:
RRTrent wrote:
As mentioned above, its the SHARP kit. It uses the aileron as an additional spoiler on landing and is available on all A32X models (also as an upgrade package).

I cant watch the video but is this something that is a simple change part and then a software change?

Fred


I'm not sure about any structural changes being required (actuators etc). My understanding its its just software.
 
Leej
Topic Author
Posts: 376
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2001 10:39 pm

Re: A320 Series Spoilers

Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:28 pm

RRTrent wrote:
As mentioned above, its the SHARP kit. It uses the aileron as an additional spoiler on landing and is available on all A32X models (also as an upgrade package).


Thanks bud, but I am aware of the aileron update with use of lift dump - I was specifically referring to the additional thin strips that appear to be only on A321 (all ages) and newer A320's inboard spoiler, and first outboard spoiler. On the A318 - BA seem to have it on theres with the aileron mod & spoiler enlargement, but AF have no aileron mod, but do have the spoiler enlargement!
 
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767333ER
Posts: 1086
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:14 am

Re: A320 Series Spoilers

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:09 pm

Leej wrote:
Intrigued me for years, finally decided to post the question! On (at least) the A320/1 series: The inboard, and the first outboard spoiler. Some seem to have an additional trailing edge 'fillet' for want of a better word. And some don't. I thought at first it might have something to do with the A321, having different slotted flaps, but it doesn't seem to be the case. For better visualisation:
Without fillet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdspsWNvi_8
&
With fillet:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_-Zb60J7rI

It looks like a small strip has been added to the spoiler. Answers on a postcard please!!!

This add on part is installed on all A318/19/21 but not regular A320 as it is technically an older design. Why they didn’t add to the A320 or why they have it I don’t know. The A320N did receive this modification so all models produced now have this.
Been on: 732 733 734 73G 738 752 763 A319 A320 A321 CRJ CR7 CRA/CR9 E145 E175 E190 F28 MD-82 MD-83 C172R C172S P2006T PA-28-180
 
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RRTrent
Posts: 463
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:12 am

Re: A320 Series Spoilers

Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:47 am

Leej wrote:
RRTrent wrote:
As mentioned above, its the SHARP kit. It uses the aileron as an additional spoiler on landing and is available on all A32X models (also as an upgrade package).


Thanks bud, but I am aware of the aileron update with use of lift dump - I was specifically referring to the additional thin strips that appear to be only on A321 (all ages) and newer A320's inboard spoiler, and first outboard spoiler. On the A318 - BA seem to have it on theres with the aileron mod & spoiler enlargement, but AF have no aileron mod, but do have the spoiler enlargement!


Ahh ok, missed it completely. I can see what your referring to now and to be honest... I have no idea.
 
Flow2706
Posts: 210
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:20 pm

Re: A320 Series Spoilers

Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:18 am

767333ER wrote:
Leej wrote:
Intrigued me for years, finally decided to post the question! On (at least) the A320/1 series: The inboard, and the first outboard spoiler. Some seem to have an additional trailing edge 'fillet' for want of a better word. And some don't. I thought at first it might have something to do with the A321, having different slotted flaps, but it doesn't seem to be the case. For better visualisation:
Without fillet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdspsWNvi_8
&
With fillet:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_-Zb60J7rI

It looks like a small strip has been added to the spoiler. Answers on a postcard please!!!

This add on part is installed on all A318/19/21 but not regular A320 as it is technically an older design. Why they didn’t add to the A320 or why they have it I don’t know. The A320N did receive this modification so all models produced now have this.

The spoiler system operates also slightly different on A320 compared to A318/319/321. It's not possible to select full speed brakes on A320 with Autopilot on (if the handle is extended to the full position the surfaces deflect only 50%), however it is possible on A318/319/321. Possibly it is related to this as well...
 
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767333ER
Posts: 1086
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:14 am

Re: A320 Series Spoilers

Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:28 pm

Flow2706 wrote:
767333ER wrote:
Leej wrote:
Intrigued me for years, finally decided to post the question! On (at least) the A320/1 series: The inboard, and the first outboard spoiler. Some seem to have an additional trailing edge 'fillet' for want of a better word. And some don't. I thought at first it might have something to do with the A321, having different slotted flaps, but it doesn't seem to be the case. For better visualisation:
Without fillet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdspsWNvi_8
&
With fillet:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_-Zb60J7rI

It looks like a small strip has been added to the spoiler. Answers on a postcard please!!!

This add on part is installed on all A318/19/21 but not regular A320 as it is technically an older design. Why they didn’t add to the A320 or why they have it I don’t know. The A320N did receive this modification so all models produced now have this.

The spoiler system operates also slightly different on A320 compared to A318/319/321. It's not possible to select full speed brakes on A320 with Autopilot on (if the handle is extended to the full position the surfaces deflect only 50%), however it is possible on A318/319/321. Possibly it is related to this as well...

More than likely considering there is a correlation on which models these two features are on. More interesting to me is the removal of the spoileron when they put the new engines on. I imagine it has to do with wing bending forces or something.
Been on: 732 733 734 73G 738 752 763 A319 A320 A321 CRJ CR7 CRA/CR9 E145 E175 E190 F28 MD-82 MD-83 C172R C172S P2006T PA-28-180
 
LH707330
Posts: 2260
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:27 pm

Re: A320 Series Spoilers

Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:48 pm

There are a few oddities on the 320 that were changed on the later variants, like the nacelle strakes. The 320 only had them on the inner side, while the 318/19/21 have them on both the inner side and outer side of the engine nacelle. Presumably it wasn't worth recertifying the change, so they left it as is. When they did the NEO, they had to redo the cert stuff anyway, so that's when they standardized it across the whole line.
 
CeddP
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:04 am

Re: A320 Series Spoilers

Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:34 am

767333ER wrote:
More interesting to me is the removal of the spoileron when they put the new engines on. I imagine it has to do with wing bending forces or something.


Can you expend on this? What do you call a spoileron (aileron behavior on landing with SHARP mod?) and when was it removed?
 
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767333ER
Posts: 1086
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:14 am

Re: A320 Series Spoilers

Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:56 pm

CeddP wrote:
767333ER wrote:
More interesting to me is the removal of the spoileron when they put the new engines on. I imagine it has to do with wing bending forces or something.


Can you expend on this? What do you call a spoileron (aileron behavior on landing with SHARP mod?) and when was it removed?

On a regular A320 of any variant built after a certain point in production or one that received the software updated that allowed for it, they have a feature that puts the aileron up as an extra spoiler when the plane lands. The same for the flapperon function it has. The oldest A320s didn’t have it, but many have been updated now to have it. You can see this for example on Air Canada as I always used to note that most of the A320 fleet was so old it had neither of these functions and then suddenly a few years ago these 25 year old A320s started doing this.

The since they put the newer engines on the spoiler function of the aileron seems to have been removed. The only logical reason I can think of is due to the forces that act on the wing with the heavier engines but that’s just a guess.
Been on: 732 733 734 73G 738 752 763 A319 A320 A321 CRJ CR7 CRA/CR9 E145 E175 E190 F28 MD-82 MD-83 C172R C172S P2006T PA-28-180
 
CeddP
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:04 am

Re: A320 Series Spoilers

Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:02 pm

767333ER wrote:
The since they put the newer engines on the spoiler function of the aileron seems to have been removed. The only logical reason I can think of is due to the forces that act on the wing with the heavier engines but that’s just a guess.


That's what surprises me. I've flown recently the 320neo with vueling, and I could clearly see ailerons dumping lift after touchdown. Several videos on youtube tend to show the same aswell...

On the other hand I've seen the 350 not really showing this aileron behavior even if it's documented in the FCOM...
See here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtBIkqPPaGY&t=425 where ailerons move up only too late, when aircraft is vacating rwy. Or here, where it doesn't at all : https://youtu.be/W13-6rwkXyA?t=563
Really wonder what parameters make them moving up as spoilers or not !
Sorry to slide a bit off topic here...

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