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777 crew rest area

Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:20 pm
by Charlie757
A friend of mine that works for British Airways mentioned that some of their 772ER’s don’t have crew rest areas installed, just some seats with a curtain around which seems odd for an airliner that can easily fly up to 14 hours. I later found an FAA document online which permits changes to overhead areas however this was dated as 2003?

https://www.federalregister.gov/documen ... mpartments

So Were crew rest areas never a requirement when the -200ER was first launched or has the airline just chosen to order the aircraft without these areas fitted to save weight/cost etc? I couldn’t imagine a feature not being offered on an aircraft with a fairly long range.

Re: 777 crew rest area

Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:36 pm
by BravoOne
I believe the Delta 777-200ERs all have the crew rest although they were deleivered without them and flew for the first 3+ years without any crew rest as the routes did not exceed the threshold.

Re: 777 crew rest area

Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:41 pm
by gabrielchew
Aircraft without proper lie-flat crew rest are limited in the time they can operate. At BA these are the G-VII* machines, and won't go further than around 9 hours (they go as far as India/BGI/NBO/SEA etc. The G-YMM* ones have crew rest fitted and can fly much further (e.g. PVG/BKK/EZE). All the 777-300 have crew rest. The nonER 777 do not.

The crew rest obviously weighs something, so it's cheaper for the airline to not fit them. However, the lack of crew rest limits both the range of the aircraft, and the ability for the crew to operate as planned should there be any unexpected delays on the ground.

EASA regulations will apply, not FAA ones.

Re: 777 crew rest area

Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:01 pm
by Tristarsteve
Some of the BA 777 200ER were delivered without crew rest, and had it fitted later by a 3rd party mod. The Boeing rest area was too expensive!

Re: 777 crew rest area

Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 6:16 pm
by zeke
I think some 777s also had crew rests in the cargo hold.

Still have 787s delivered without crew rests.

Re: 777 crew rest area

Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 6:46 pm
by Tristarsteve
The Malaysian B777 have cabin crew rest in a container in aft freight hold. Entry near R3 door.

Re: 777 crew rest area

Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:05 pm
by greg85
Charlie757 wrote:
A friend of mine that works for British Airways mentioned that some of their 772ER’s don’t have crew rest areas installed, just some seats with a curtain around which seems odd for an airliner that can easily fly up to 14 hours. I later found an FAA document online which permits changes to overhead areas however this was dated as 2003?

https://www.federalregister.gov/documen ... mpartments

So Were crew rest areas never a requirement when the -200ER was first launched or has the airline just chosen to order the aircraft without these areas fitted to save weight/cost etc? I couldn’t imagine a feature not being offered on an aircraft with a fairly long range.


The answer to this one is simple. BA made a mistake and forgot to configure the 777 with crew bunks. The config was changed as soon as it was realised.

I remember hearing at the time that BA planned to retrofit them with bunks above and behind the cockpit, but a number of issues stopped that plan.

Re: 777 crew rest area

Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:01 pm
by crimsonchin
greg85 wrote:
Charlie757 wrote:
A friend of mine that works for British Airways mentioned that some of their 772ER’s don’t have crew rest areas installed, just some seats with a curtain around which seems odd for an airliner that can easily fly up to 14 hours. I later found an FAA document online which permits changes to overhead areas however this was dated as 2003?

https://www.federalregister.gov/documen ... mpartments

So Were crew rest areas never a requirement when the -200ER was first launched or has the airline just chosen to order the aircraft without these areas fitted to save weight/cost etc? I couldn’t imagine a feature not being offered on an aircraft with a fairly long range.


The answer to this one is simple. BA made a mistake and forgot to configure the 777 with crew bunks
. The config was changed as soon as it was realised.

I remember hearing at the time that BA planned to retrofit them with bunks above and behind the cockpit, but a number of issues stopped that plan.


I'm confused, if BA intended for those planes to fly routes whose length require crew rest areas, how did they "forget" to not install them?

Re: 777 crew rest area

Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:05 pm
by jetblueguy22
greg85 wrote:
Charlie757 wrote:
A friend of mine that works for British Airways mentioned that some of their 772ER’s don’t have crew rest areas installed, just some seats with a curtain around which seems odd for an airliner that can easily fly up to 14 hours. I later found an FAA document online which permits changes to overhead areas however this was dated as 2003?

https://www.federalregister.gov/documen ... mpartments

So Were crew rest areas never a requirement when the -200ER was first launched or has the airline just chosen to order the aircraft without these areas fitted to save weight/cost etc? I couldn’t imagine a feature not being offered on an aircraft with a fairly long range.


The answer to this one is simple. BA made a mistake and forgot to configure the 777 with crew bunks. The config was changed as soon as it was realised.

I remember hearing at the time that BA planned to retrofit them with bunks above and behind the cockpit, but a number of issues stopped that plan.

Id bet a significant amount of money they didn’t “forget” anything

Re: 777 crew rest area

Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:58 am
by Starlionblue
No rest area is fine even with 3 flight crew ops up to a certain length (11 hours in our case). A business class seat may be used for in-flight rest, though the rest credit is smaller than for a bunk. You just can't use the tails without a rest area for longer flights than 11 hours.

In other words, it depends on your route structure. We have plenty of sectors shorter than 11 hours that justify that size aircraft.

Tristarsteve wrote:
Some of the BA 777 200ER were delivered without crew rest, and had it fitted later by a 3rd party mod. The Boeing rest area was too expensive!


Not only expensive, but heavy. You have to justify the extra burn on every flight.

Re: 777 crew rest area

Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 2:20 pm
by BA777FO
The original A market 777s didn't have the range to justify a crew rest area so were delivered without. When BA ordered the 777IGW (GE powered ERs) it was only ever planned to operate to the east coast USA, Middle East and Nigeria. Aside from the odd flights to SEA, DEL, NBO and some of the Gatwick routes to MCO, TPA, KIN and CUN they're rarely operated on routes with 3 crew anyway. Same was true of the RR powered 777-200ERs. However, given the capability it was later decided to add crew rest areas to the RR powered 200ERs. The 3 class aircraft had an OFCR retrofitted and the 4-class 200ERs had a bit of a cupboard with bunk beds installed at the back of First in place of 2 First seats. The RR 772s are used as longer range aircraft to BKK, EZE, PVG, LIM, MRU and the like.

There is a difference in capability of the 2 types as well. The GE powered 777s, in the 336 seat 3 class LGW config, during summer, are often limited to about 265 tonnes, which is fine full to Kingston and a decent cargo load but you wouldn't send it full to LIM even if it had bunks. The RR 777s will still happily go to a TOPL of 295 tonnes and does LIM full no problems.

Now that the 4-class RR 200s are being retrofitted to 3 class with the new Club suite the old bunk beds are coming out and a proper OFCR being installed. These aircraft have another 10 years of life left in them so there's definitely time for pay back on the costs.

The 77Ws were all delivered with OFCR, as will the 4 new ones due for delivery this year.

So in a nutshell none of the GE powered 772s have crew rest. All 3 class RR 772s have or will have OFAR and all 4 class RR 772s are becoming 3 class and will also have OFCR. All 77Ws have OFCR.

The craziest thing BA has done was order the A350 with restricted galley space without sufficient area for a 2nd full meal service so they'll be restricted to routes where a full 2nd meal isn't required - bit of a waste on one of your aircraft with the longest range!

Re: 777 crew rest area

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:01 pm
by Charlie757
BA777FO wrote:
The original A market 777s didn't have the range to justify a crew rest area so were delivered without. When BA ordered the 777IGW (GE powered ERs) it was only ever planned to operate to the east coast USA, Middle East and Nigeria. Aside from the odd flights to SEA, DEL, NBO and some of the Gatwick routes to MCO, TPA, KIN and CUN they're rarely operated on routes with 3 crew anyway. Same was true of the RR powered 777-200ERs. However, given the capability it was later decided to add crew rest areas to the RR powered 200ERs. The 3 class aircraft had an OFCR retrofitted and the 4-class 200ERs had a bit of a cupboard with bunk beds installed at the back of First in place of 2 First seats. The RR 772s are used as longer range aircraft to BKK, EZE, PVG, LIM, MRU and the like.

There is a difference in capability of the 2 types as well. The GE powered 777s, in the 336 seat 3 class LGW config, during summer, are often limited to about 265 tonnes, which is fine full to Kingston and a decent cargo load but you wouldn't send it full to LIM even if it had bunks. The RR 777s will still happily go to a TOPL of 295 tonnes and does LIM full no problems.

Now that the 4-class RR 200s are being retrofitted to 3 class with the new Club suite the old bunk beds are coming out and a proper OFCR being installed. These aircraft have another 10 years of life left in them so there's definitely time for pay back on the costs.

The 77Ws were all delivered with OFCR, as will the 4 new ones due for delivery this year.

So in a nutshell none of the GE powered 772s have crew rest. All 3 class RR 772s have or will have OFAR and all 4 class RR 772s are becoming 3 class and will also have OFCR. All 77Ws have OFCR.

The craziest thing BA has done was order the A350 with restricted galley space without sufficient area for a 2nd full meal service so they'll be restricted to routes where a full 2nd meal isn't required - bit of a waste on one of your aircraft with the longest range!


Really interesting info thank you!! :)
Completely agree with you about the 350! It’s got sooo much capability and it’s being wasted because they wanted to shove so many seats in :’(

Re: 777 crew rest area

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:02 pm
by Charlie757
Thanks for all the answers guys :)