tofur
Topic Author
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:51 pm

Ditching Or Water Landings On Commercial Airliners

Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:04 am

There is a very slim chance that ditching will happen on your flight. Here is some information for those interested in which best exits to use according to aircraft type from my cabin crew experience and training. Of course all incidents and situations are unique, so situational awareness applies. I remember that my 707 training had slides only and life rafts in the cabin ceiling, same with the DC-8 that we used for a few months while awaiting new aircraft. I also remember our 747-100 series also used cabin ceiling life rafts at door 3, and slide rafts at all other doors.

Let's move on to current times and the aircraft I use, other airlines may vary.

777-300 Slide rafts at all doors except door 3, must swim to slide raft at other doors.
777-200 Slide rafts at all doors.
788/9 Slide rafts at all doors.
333 Slide rafts at all doors except door 3, must swim to slide raft at other doors.
763 Slide rafts at doors, overwing exits must swim to life rafts.
319/320 Overseas aircraft have slide rafts at doors, overwing passengers must swim to life raft.
7M8 Overseas aircraft Doors 2 are blocked as expected to be underwater, overwing no slides, and Doors 1 have slides only, passengers must exit into water until such time
as ceiling life rafts can be accessed and launched and swim to life raft. Hark back to the 707 and DC-8!

Although ditching is very rare, something to consider and be aware.
 
PlaneGolf
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:37 am

Re: Ditching Or Water Landings On Commercial Airliners

Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:47 am

Thank you for this valuable information. Let me state how vital this type of information is to all passengers in commercial aircraft. Is ditching likely? Thank God no due to technology and diligent enforcement of ETOPS standards.

But just consider for a moment the number of long haul over-water aircraft spanning the oceans and poles at any given moment. Hopefully we are beyond the times in the past where ditching of temperamental piston engines did occur. But all of us as informed passengers should actually look at the safety briefings.

And for any of you who are tempted to flame this post, shame on you. I applaud this person reaching out to all of us.
 
seat1a
Posts: 541
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:52 pm

Re: Ditching Or Water Landings On Commercial Airliners

Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:55 am

Valuable and eager to see how this thread plays out. Do ETOPS flights over water have rafts capable of holding all passenger and crew? Also, are the slides configured to be rafts, or function like them?

Thanks.
 
MO11
Posts: 1266
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Ditching Or Water Landings On Commercial Airliners

Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:15 am

seat1a wrote:
Valuable and eager to see how this thread plays out. Do ETOPS flights over water have rafts capable of holding all passenger and crew? Also, are the slides configured to be rafts, or function like them?

Thanks.


Rafts are required for extended overwater ops, not just ETOPS.

121.339(a)(2) Enough life rafts (each equipped with an approved survivor locator light) of a rated capacity and buoyancy to accommodate the occupants of the airplane. Unless excess rafts of enough capacity are provided, the buoyancy and seating capacity beyond the rated capacity of the rafts must accommodate all occupants of the airplane in the event of a loss of one raft of the largest rated capacity.

If designed, slides can be used as rafts.
 
tofur
Topic Author
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:51 pm

Re: Ditching Or Water Landings On Commercial Airliners

Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:18 am

seat1a wrote:
Valuable and eager to see how this thread plays out. Do ETOPS flights over water have rafts capable of holding all passenger and crew? Also, are the slides configured to be rafts, or function like them?

Thanks.


Yes, the slide rafts are capable of holding all passengers and crew albeit in very tight quarters, including those from exits without rafts Evacuation slides are only slides, not slide rafts and are only meant to be used as flotation devices when detached from aircraft.
 
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Starlionblue
Posts: 19632
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

Re: Ditching Or Water Landings On Commercial Airliners

Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:04 am

tofur wrote:
There is a very slim chance that ditching will happen on your flight. Here is some information for those interested in which best exits to use according to aircraft type from my cabin crew experience and training. Of course all incidents and situations are unique, so situational awareness applies. I remember that my 707 training had slides only and life rafts in the cabin ceiling, same with the DC-8 that we used for a few months while awaiting new aircraft. I also remember our 747-100 series also used cabin ceiling life rafts at door 3, and slide rafts at all other doors.

Let's move on to current times and the aircraft I use, other airlines may vary.

777-300 Slide rafts at all doors except door 3, must swim to slide raft at other doors.
777-200 Slide rafts at all doors.
788/9 Slide rafts at all doors.
333 Slide rafts at all doors except door 3, must swim to slide raft at other doors.
763 Slide rafts at doors, overwing exits must swim to life rafts.
319/320 Overseas aircraft have slide rafts at doors, overwing passengers must swim to life raft.
7M8 Overseas aircraft Doors 2 are blocked as expected to be underwater, overwing no slides, and Doors 1 have slides only, passengers must exit into water until such time
as ceiling life rafts can be accessed and launched and swim to life raft. Hark back to the 707 and DC-8!

Although ditching is very rare, something to consider and be aware.



"Must swim to life rafts"?

It is much simpler to evacuate all pax to the life rafts directly. Unless you're in a massive hurry, don't use the slide (non slide-raft) exits at all.

That being said, most passengers don't even know where the nearest exit is, and quite a few have a hard time finding the nearest lav. Even enthusiasts normally have to look at the safety card.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 4647
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Ditching Or Water Landings On Commercial Airliners

Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:32 am

Everybody seemed to get out of Cactus 1549 pretty quickly. Some even made to LGA for the next flight to their destinations
 
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AirKevin
Posts: 565
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Re: Ditching Or Water Landings On Commercial Airliners

Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:15 pm

Don't think anybody is going to be doing any swimming out of door 2 on a 737 since you aren't supposed to even open those doors in a water landing in the first place.
Captain Kevin
 
LCDFlight
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:22 pm

Re: Ditching Or Water Landings On Commercial Airliners

Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:07 am

It would be neat to watch a 777-300 ditching, you know, for science. With only pilots in it, or by remote control.
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: Ditching Or Water Landings On Commercial Airliners

Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:29 am

LCDFlight wrote:
It would be neat to watch a 777-300 ditching, you know, for science. With only pilots in it, or by remote control.


I vote for remote control. :D
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
BravoOne
Posts: 3857
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: Ditching Or Water Landings On Commercial Airliners

Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:15 am

LCDFlight wrote:
It would be neat to watch a 777-300 ditching, you know, for science. With only pilots in it, or by remote control.



Very wierd...
 
CosmicCruiser
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Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:01 am

Re: Ditching Or Water Landings On Commercial Airliners

Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:01 pm

just youtube the old films of B-29s, B-24s and C-97 ditching. Some were done, as you say for science, and are very interesting.They are rarely as perfect as the Hudson landing. I can't imagine the 777 being much different.
 
LCDFlight
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:22 pm

Re: Ditching Or Water Landings On Commercial Airliners

Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:12 pm

BravoOne wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
It would be neat to watch a 777-300 ditching, you know, for science. With only pilots in it, or by remote control.



Very wierd...


Don't you wonder what would happen?! Of course I did not mean for any pilots to be hurt, I meant to minimize the risks to any people and see how the aircraft performs, that's all. It would make a big splash. It should survive the landing, deploy slides etc.
 
BravoOne
Posts: 3857
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: Ditching Or Water Landings On Commercial Airliners

Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:24 pm

Boeing and I assume Airbus, do a ditching analysis for each of their aircraft. Obviously it's done under varying degrees of sea state and pax loads.

Delta ran a "ditching seminar" back in the early 90's. Interesting subject but little value to be gained without some first hand experience. Delta had a F/O at the time the was the copiot on a USN P3 that didtched in horrible conditions off the Kamchatka coast. Chilling story. You can Google it and see just what they were up against.

Everyone marvels at the USAir 320 in the Huson, when in fact Northest had several ditchings in the late 50'sthat were far more difficult than the Miracle on the Hudson by far.
 
barney captain
Posts: 2301
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: Ditching Or Water Landings On Commercial Airliners

Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:57 pm

Pan Am 6, a Boeing 377 ditched in the middle of the Pacific in 1956 - everyone survived. The flight was commanded by Captain Richard Ogg, which is where the airport in Kahului Maui gets the airport code we use today - OGG.

The photo below refers to "Flight 943" when in fact that was the registration - N90943. The actual flight number was Pan Am 6.

Image

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6onMGIvRF0
Southeast Of Disorder
 
BravoOne
Posts: 3857
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: Ditching Or Water Landings On Commercial Airliners

Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:57 pm

barney captain wrote:
Pan Am 6, a Boeing 377 ditched in the middle of the Pacific in 1956 - everyone survived. The flight was commanded by Captain Richard Ogg, which is where the airport in Kahului Maui gets the airport code we use today - OGG.

The photo below refers to "Flight 943" when in fact that was the registration - N90943. The actual flight number was Pan Am 6.

Image

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6onMGIvRF0



A frequent mistake as OGG is named after a Hawaiian pilot named James Hogg (sp). I don't believe there is any relationship between the two of these pilots. Hope you are not passing this misinformation on to your passengers in your PA announcements:)
 
barney captain
Posts: 2301
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: Ditching Or Water Landings On Commercial Airliners

Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:25 pm

DOH!!!!

Thanks for the correction (and no, Im not lol). I've even read the wall dedicated to him in OGG......and when I posted that I could have sworn it was Hogg and he flew for Hawaiian......weird coincidence.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
BravoOne
Posts: 3857
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: Ditching Or Water Landings On Commercial Airliners

Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:29 pm

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