Scotron12
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Aircraft Retirement: What Equipment Gets Retained

Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:10 am

When airlines retire aircraft, do they retain any avionics or is the whole plane scrapped?

Are there any equipment on, lets say an 744 or an A380, that an airline would keep for further use??

Just curious. Cheers
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: Aircraft Retirement: What Equipment Gets Retained

Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:09 am

If the type is still in the fleet, some bits and pieces would be typically be retained as spares. Or older parts from the rest of the fleet swapped onto the retiring plane before it left.

Certainly, the company scrapping the plane won't just mulch the valuable bits. They'd be removed and resold if at all possible.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
mmo
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Re: Aircraft Retirement: What Equipment Gets Retained

Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:06 am

Just to add some detail. If the aircraft is a lease, it goes back to the leasing company in a pre-agreed condition. Such as a certain amount of time left on time-critical components such as landing gear, engine, APU. Or cycle limited parts such as landing gear and other components. All ADs applicable must be complied with. Pretty much it goes back in "like received" condition.

If the aircraft is being scrapped, it really depends on the scrapping agreement. The scrapper makes money off the parts, especially if they are coming off an airworthy aircraft. So, as Starlionblue wrote, some older parts might be swapped if the scrapper comes and gives a bid for the aircraft, the s/n for all the applicable parts are verified.

I took a lot of NW 747-100s to be parted out and they paid someone to go through the cockpit and take out every light bulb as they could even sell those too. As the 100 fleet got smaller at NW, the engines were not part of the deal and they were returned to NW to use as spares for the remaining fleet or to put on the next aircraft being parted out.
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Scotron12
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Re: Aircraft Retirement: What Equipment Gets Retained

Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:03 pm

mmo wrote:
Just to add some detail. If the aircraft is a lease, it goes back to the leasing company in a pre-agreed condition. Such as a certain amount of time left on time-critical components such as landing gear, engine, APU. Or cycle limited parts such as landing gear and other components. All ADs applicable must be complied with. Pretty much it goes back in "like received" condition.

If the aircraft is being scrapped, it really depends on the scrapping agreement. The scrapper makes money off the parts, especially if they are coming off an airworthy aircraft. So, as Starlionblue wrote, some older parts might be swapped if the scrapper comes and gives a bid for the aircraft, the s/n for all the applicable parts are verified.

I took a lot of NW 747-100s to be parted out and they paid someone to go through the cockpit and take out every light bulb as they could even sell those too. As the 100 fleet got smaller at NW, the engines were not part of the deal and they were returned to NW to use as spares for the remaining fleet or to put on the next aircraft being parted out.


Thank you for detailed reply. Main reason I asked was looking at BAs retirement schedule on their 744s. Right now seven (7) BA 744s are to be withdrawn by February 2021. If they decide to accelerate this schedule because of COVID19 is quite likely seeing as most of them are deployed TransAtlantic and the US has added UK to the ban.

All BA 744s are owned outright AFAIR. So I would guess the RB211s can be retained for use as spares or use on other 744s remaining?

Plus, I don't think UK has the capacity to scrap many, especially if BA decide to add more 744s to the retirement schedule.

Cheers
 
Dalmd88
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Re: Aircraft Retirement: What Equipment Gets Retained

Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:00 pm

Scotron12 wrote:
mmo wrote:
Just to add some detail. If the aircraft is a lease, it goes back to the leasing company in a pre-agreed condition. Such as a certain amount of time left on time-critical components such as landing gear, engine, APU. Or cycle limited parts such as landing gear and other components. All ADs applicable must be complied with. Pretty much it goes back in "like received" condition.

If the aircraft is being scrapped, it really depends on the scrapping agreement. The scrapper makes money off the parts, especially if they are coming off an airworthy aircraft. So, as Starlionblue wrote, some older parts might be swapped if the scrapper comes and gives a bid for the aircraft, the s/n for all the applicable parts are verified.

I took a lot of NW 747-100s to be parted out and they paid someone to go through the cockpit and take out every light bulb as they could even sell those too. As the 100 fleet got smaller at NW, the engines were not part of the deal and they were returned to NW to use as spares for the remaining fleet or to put on the next aircraft being parted out.


Thank you for detailed reply. Main reason I asked was looking at BAs retirement schedule on their 744s. Right now seven (7) BA 744s are to be withdrawn by February 2021. If they decide to accelerate this schedule because of COVID19 is quite likely seeing as most of them are deployed TransAtlantic and the US has added UK to the ban.

All BA 744s are owned outright AFAIR. So I would guess the RB211s can be retained for use as spares or use on other 744s remaining?

Plus, I don't think UK has the capacity to scrap many, especially if BA decide to add more 744s to the retirement schedule.

Cheers

I would bet BA would harvest anything that is usable for their other fleets once it get to the scrapyard. I know Delta typically does that with our owned fleets. The scrapyard ends up with everything that is left. They then go through and decide what to harvest for resale and mulch the rest.

The scrapping capacity in the UK isn't really a factor. BA could choose to do business with a scrapyard in another country. I think if you look through the photos of the US yards you will find old BA airframes.
 
mmo
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Re: Aircraft Retirement: What Equipment Gets Retained

Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:05 pm

Scotron12 wrote:
All BA 744s are owned outright AFAIR. So I would guess the RB211s can be retained for use as spares or use on other 744s remaining?



It all depends. They would get substantially less money for an airframe without the engines. But it depends on how desperate they are for spare engines. TBH, I would imagine the 744s would go with the engines as any fleet using the same engine would have spares already. After all, having excess parts inventory is tying up capital which could be in short supply sometime in the future.

You could see the 744s stay longer as they are owned, the fixed costs are much lower than lease aircraft are. Who knows, a lot is going to depend on how long this situation lasts. And no one knows how long it will last. That is the real issue.
If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane!
 
unimproved
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Re: Aircraft Retirement: What Equipment Gets Retained

Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:18 pm

mmo wrote:
Scotron12 wrote:
All BA 744s are owned outright AFAIR. So I would guess the RB211s can be retained for use as spares or use on other 744s remaining?



It all depends. They would get substantially less money for an airframe without the engines. But it depends on how desperate they are for spare engines. TBH, I would imagine the 744s would go with the engines as any fleet using the same engine would have spares already. After all, having excess parts inventory is tying up capital which could be in short supply sometime in the future.

You could see the 744s stay longer as they are owned, the fixed costs are much lower than lease aircraft are. Who knows, a lot is going to depend on how long this situation lasts. And no one knows how long it will last. That is the real issue.

It all depends on the price they get for them. I don't know the specifics for RR frames, but with CF6s the engines after overhaul are worth more than a flying frame right now.
 
mxaxai
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Re: Aircraft Retirement: What Equipment Gets Retained

Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:35 am

Scotron12 wrote:
Thank you for detailed reply. Main reason I asked was looking at BAs retirement schedule on their 744s. Right now seven (7) BA 744s are to be withdrawn by February 2021. If they decide to accelerate this schedule because of COVID19 is quite likely seeing as most of them are deployed TransAtlantic and the US has added UK to the ban.

All BA 744s are owned outright AFAIR. So I would guess the RB211s can be retained for use as spares or use on other 744s remaining?

Plus, I don't think UK has the capacity to scrap many, especially if BA decide to add more 744s to the retirement schedule.

Cheers

I don't know about BA's 747 specifically but on many newer aircraft engines are leased separately, e. g. in a "power by the hour" agreement. So the airline doesn't pay for a specific engine but for each hour at a certain reliability and power setting. If an engine needs to be overhauled or breaks down, it goes back to the engine owner's pool (often the engine manufacturer) and the airline gets a replacement engine from the pool.

So the engine owner may have an interest to swap engines among the fleet before the aircraft is parked for an extended time. If the jet is then scrapped, the engine owner gets to decide whether they want the engines returned to them or not. If the engines are of any value (i. e. you're not scrapping a CV-990 or similar) they're usually the first part to be removed.
 
Scotron12
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Re: Aircraft Retirement: What Equipment Gets Retained

Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:28 pm

FYI....Willie Walsh of IAG was speaking today on plans for IAG airlines to cut capacity at BA, IB & EI.

BA haa over 30 B744s...IB has 16 A346s and EI some A330s that will be parked and maybe not reenter service. Plus there are around 20 narrowbodies too. All are fully depreciated.

https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/i ... 96.article

WOW!! Almost 70 aircraft could be gone in.the next 2 months. :crazy:

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