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atomicstar
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When the Air Canada DHC-8 lost a tire while taking off back in January

Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:07 pm

I remember reading about a DHC-8 taking off in Montreal (bound for Bagotville) and a landing gear tire falling off while taking off. https://abc30.com/air-canada-airplane-l ... e/5819179/

They dumped fuel and circled back to Montreal. But now thinking back, why did they have to make an emergency landing? Couldn’t they continue the flight and deal with the landing at Bagotville, which would have saved a lot of passengers’ time, saved fuel, and etc.? Especially that missing a tire won’t affect flying. And the other wheel on the landing gear was still there so probably not a major problem for landing.
 
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fr8mech
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Re: When the Air Canada DHC-8 lost a tire while taking off back in January

Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:04 am

Without knowing much about Air Canada's operations or Bagotville, a few things come to mind:

-emergency services available
-maintenance personnel and facilities available
-spare aircraft available to cover further trips
-spare parts availability
-captain's discretion
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
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Starlionblue
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Re: When the Air Canada DHC-8 lost a tire while taking off back in January

Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:05 am

- For certain they did not dump fuel, since nothing this size has fuel dumping capability.*
- The crew probably couldn't know the level of damage to the gear. No way of knowing if the other wheel would stay on during the approach or landing.
- Losing a wheel could cause a hydraulic leak, which might affect the flying characteristics.
- I don't know Air Canada Express, but I think it is safe to assume that Montreal is a fairly major base, while Bagotville is not. Looking it up, it is an RCAF base, so presumably has at least good RFF capability. But now you have a broken plane to fix, away from a maintenance base. Much simpler to go back to Montreal.
- Yes, this was an inconvenience for the pax, but they can be loaded on a replacement aircraft, which could be scrounged up in Montreal. On the other hand, if they'd landed in Bagotville, what about the pax on the return or continuing flight?

* Since this is a.net, someone will soon find some exception to this rule. ;) But in general, nothing smaller than a 727 has fuel dumping capability. And even many widebodies do not, or only as an option.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
atomicstar
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Re: When the Air Canada DHC-8 lost a tire while taking off back in January

Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:06 am

Oh, it was my misconception. I always thought anything bigger than a business jet had fuel dumping systems.
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: When the Air Canada DHC-8 lost a tire while taking off back in January

Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:46 am

atomicstar wrote:
Oh, it was my misconception. I always thought anything bigger than a business jet had fuel dumping systems.


It is not really needed on narrowbodies since the proportion of the total weight that is fuel isn't so dramatic. We don't even have a fuel dumping system on our A330s. Once you start getting into fuel quantities that make up a third or more of the take-off weight, though, like on a 777 going intercontinental, the performance impact becomes very large and a fuel dumping system makes sense.

The misconception is often that fuel is dumped to decrease the risk of fire, but that is not the case. It is done to decrease landing speeds and required landing distance, as well as improve go-around performance.

In either case, you can always land up to max takeoff weight on any aircraft if you really need to get down ASAP.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
atomicstar
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Re: When the Air Canada DHC-8 lost a tire while taking off back in January

Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:52 pm

Starlionblue wrote:
It is not really needed on narrowbodies since the proportion of the total weight that is fuel isn't so dramatic. We don't even have a fuel dumping system on our A330s. Once you start getting into fuel quantities that make up a third or more of the take-off weight, though, like on a 777 going intercontinental, the performance impact becomes very large and a fuel dumping system makes sense.

Thanks for the info.

I found this chart published by Boeing on aircraft models with fuel dumping capabilities http://www.boeing.com/assets/pdf/commer ... eldump.pdf
 
N1120A
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Re: When the Air Canada DHC-8 lost a tire while taking off back in January

Thu Apr 09, 2020 7:37 am

atomicstar wrote:
Oh, it was my misconception. I always thought anything bigger than a business jet had fuel dumping systems.


Tons of business jets hold much more fuel than a Q400 does. A G650 holds almost 4 times what a Q400 does.
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m1m2
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Re: When the Air Canada DHC-8 lost a tire while taking off back in January

Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:58 pm

"* Since this is a.net, someone will soon find some exception to this rule. ;) But in general, nothing smaller than a 727 has fuel dumping capability. And even many widebodies do not, or only as an option."

I don't know of an exception, but as someone with a maintenance endorsement on the Q400, I can confirm 100% that no Q400 (unless heavily modified by some STC, something like that, and that's only a remote possibility) has the capacity to dump fuel. There's definitely a lot of valves and ejectors in the tanks, but nothing that allows fuel to be pumped to anywhere other than the engines, or from one tank to another.
 
rfields5421
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Re: When the Air Canada DHC-8 lost a tire while taking off back in January

Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:03 pm

Or they could have flown around for a bit to burn off some fuel to lessen the weight at the time of landing. And some extra troubleshooting and discussions with maintenance and ops.

Once the plane is in the air, stable, with no alarms or specific other failures, taking a deep breath and look at the problem and possible solutions is good.

And we all know the news media would never assume a plane was doing something like dumping fuel and guess wrong.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
Airontario
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Re: When the Air Canada DHC-8 lost a tire while taking off back in January

Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:58 pm

YUL is a maintenance base for Jazz, YBG is not.

It makes a lot more sense to return to YUL, Where a new aircraft and crew can be organized, rather than continue to YBG and ground the aircraft up there for as long as it takes to get the maintenance crew to get up there and replace the parts.

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