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Max Q
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747SP fifth pod ?

Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:20 am

Anyone know if this sub type was certified for fifth pod engine ferry and if it was ever done ?
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
Airliner1973
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Re: 747SP fifth pod ?

Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:26 am

Check this thread on this wonderful forum:
viewtopic.php?t=775179
It details all 747 types (and other airliners) and how the 5th pod was used.
 
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seat55a
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Re: 747SP fifth pod ?

Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:05 am

only Max was a participant in that other thread..and an earlier one...and they don't say anything about SP one way or another, just an "I have no info" from a major source in this thread viewtopic.php?t=770041

Not the droid you are looking for: https://theaviationist.com/2012/05/10/d ... nt-engine/
 
mmo
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Re: 747SP fifth pod ?

Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:30 am

Don't know if it was ever done, but the SP was approved for 5th pod operation. If you look at the TCDS for the 747 you can see it in there. It is in there and it is somewhat backwards approval.
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surrodox2001
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Re: 747SP fifth pod ?

Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:20 am

Kinda related, what airline does frequently use 5th pod on the 747?
 
andrej
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Re: 747SP fifth pod ?

Fri Apr 10, 2020 4:07 pm

surrodox2001 wrote:
Kinda related, what airline does frequently use 5th pod on the 747?


I recall QANTAS utilizing it a lot. Check out photo gallery section.
 
Tristarsteve
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Re: 747SP fifth pod ?

Fri Apr 10, 2020 4:37 pm

When the B747-400 took over from the -200, the increased performance meant that only two airlines really used the 5th pod. Qantas and South African, both surrounded by a lot of water.
In BA we could 3 engine ferry the aircraft back to London from most stations, and it was much cheaper to ferry the aircraft to the spare engine, than to ferry the spare engine, and stands, and equipment, and technicians, to the aircraft.
Once we had a failure in Sydney, and borrowed an engine from Qantas for the return flight to LHR. (The engine was removed on arrival at LHR and returned by freighter)
 
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747classic
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Re: 747SP fifth pod ?

Fri Apr 10, 2020 5:24 pm

Max Q wrote:
Anyone know if this sub type was certified for fifth pod engine ferry and if it was ever done ?


Syrian 747SP, YK-AHA, 1999-09-01, MUC, with 5th pod installed :

Image

See : https://www.747sp.com/747sp-production-list/21174-284/

And select photo dd. 1999-09-01
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
surrodox2001
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Re: 747SP fifth pod ?

Fri Apr 10, 2020 5:41 pm

747classic wrote:
Max Q wrote:
Anyone know if this sub type was certified for fifth pod engine ferry and if it was ever done ?


Syrian 747SP, YK-AHA, 1999-09-01, MUC, with 5th pod installed :

Image

See : https://www.747sp.com/747sp-production-list/21174-284/

And select photo dd. 1999-09-01


Regarding to the picture, why the fifth engine looks different in terms of engine cowl and overall size (smaller)?
 
LH707330
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Re: 747SP fifth pod ?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:17 am

surrodox2001 wrote:
747classic wrote:
Max Q wrote:
Anyone know if this sub type was certified for fifth pod engine ferry and if it was ever done ?


Syrian 747SP, YK-AHA, 1999-09-01, MUC, with 5th pod installed :

Image

See : https://www.747sp.com/747sp-production-list/21174-284/

And select photo dd. 1999-09-01


Regarding to the picture, why the fifth engine looks different in terms of engine cowl and overall size (smaller)?

That one in the pod is one of the earlier JT9D-3s with the sucker doors and narrow cowling. The later JT9D-7 that the SP came with out of the box had a wider intake to make less noise and have better stall margin. IIRC the sucker doors disappeared from production sometime in 1970 or 1971 when the new intake same on line.
 
surrodox2001
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Re: 747SP fifth pod ?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:29 am

Then why you need to haul a -3 in a -7 equipped 747sp? Plane recovery?
And I'm pretty sure that sucker-door equipped 747s are Stage 1 or 2 (?) and won't pass noise regulations.
 
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fr8mech
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Re: 747SP fifth pod ?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:44 am

The 5th pod installations on the early Jumbos used a different nose cowl and exhaust plug.
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Starlionblue
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Re: 747SP fifth pod ?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:57 am

surrodox2001 wrote:
Then why you need to haul a -3 in a -7 equipped 747sp? Plane recovery?
And I'm pretty sure that sucker-door equipped 747s are Stage 1 or 2 (?) and won't pass noise regulations.


I can't think of any reason but plane recovery to carry the fifth engine.

*** waits for the inevitable exceptions ***
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Max Q
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Re: 747SP fifth pod ?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:40 am

747classic wrote:
Max Q wrote:
Anyone know if this sub type was certified for fifth pod engine ferry and if it was ever done ?


Syrian 747SP, YK-AHA, 1999-09-01, MUC, with 5th pod installed :

Image

See : https://www.747sp.com/747sp-production-list/21174-284/

And select photo dd. 1999-09-01



Thanks for that, never seen that before
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
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747classic
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Re: 747SP fifth pod ?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:15 am

The 747SP/JT9D combination is certified for P&W JT9D-3, JT9D-3A, JT9D-7, JT9D-7A, JT9D-7F, JT9D-7J engines only.
Seen the picture, these first generation JT9D series are also certified for 5th pod operation at the 747SP.
The only other engine type, certified at the 747SP, is the Rolls Royce RB211-524 series (RB211-524B2-19, RB211-524C2-19, RB211-524D4-19, RB211-524D4-39).
I have no knowledge of any airline (or operator) actually performed a 5th pod operation at a RR powered 747SP.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
mmo
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Re: 747SP fifth pod ?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:02 am

RR is the only engine that can be carried on the 5th pod on the 744.
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surrodox2001
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Re: 747SP fifth pod ?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:58 am

747classic wrote:
I have no knowledge of any airline (or operator) actually performed a 5th pod operation at a RR powered 747SP.


In addition to that, only Qantas operated RR powered 747SPs. (VH-EAA, VH-EAB)
 
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747classic
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Re: 747SP fifth pod ?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:23 pm

Out of a total of 45 built 747SP aircraft, 6 were powered by RR engines, 39 with PW engines.

01 265 747SP-21 R3001 RG001 RX263
02 268 747SP-21 R3002 RG002 RX265
03 270 747SP-21 R3003 RG003 RX267
04 273 747SP-21 R3004 RG004 RX269
05 275 747SP-86 R3005 RG101 RX271
06 278 747SP-86 R3006 RG102 RX273
07 280 747SP-44 R3007 RG121 RX275
08 282 747SP-44 R3008 RG122 RX277
09 284 747SP-94 R3009 RG141 RX279
10 286 747SP-21 R3010 RG005 RX281
11 288 747SP-44 R3011 RG123 RX283
12 290 747SP-94 R3012 RG142 RX285
13 293 747SP-44 R3013 RG124 RX287
14 298 747SP-44 R3014 RG125 RX288
15 301 747SP-44 R3015 RG126 RX290
16 304 747SP-09 R3016 RG171 RX291
17 306 747SP-21 R3017 RG006 RX292
18 307 747SP-86 R3018 RG103 RX293
19 325 747SP-21 R3019 RG007 RX304
20 329 747SP-68 R3020 RH101 RV508
21 331 747SP-21 R3021 RG008 RX307
22 367 747SP-21 R3022 RG009 RX321
23 371 747SP-86 R3023 RG104 RX322
24 373 747SP-21 R3024 RG010 RX323
25 405 747SP-27 R3025 RG161 RX327
26 413 747SP-27 R3026 RG162 RX328
27 415 747SP-31 R3027 RG191 RX329
28 433 747SP-J6 R3301 RG211 RX333
29 439 747SP-31 R3028 RG192 RX334
30 441 747SP-31 R3029 RG193 RX335
31 445 747SP-09 R3030 RG172 RX336
32 447 747SP-27 R3031 RG163 RX337
33 455 747SP-J6 R3302 RG212 RX338
34 467 747SP-J6 R3303 RG213 RX339
35 473 747SP-27 R3032 RG164 RX340
36 501 747SP-B5 R3304 RG221 RX341
37 505 747SP-38 R3305 RH111 RV523
38 507 747SP-B5 R3306 RG222 RX342
39 529 747SP-68 R3307 RH121 RV533
40 534 747SP-09 R3033 RG173 RX343
41 537 747SP-38 R3308 RH112 RV537
42 560 747SP-68 R3309 RH122 RV541
43 564 747SP-09 R3034 RG174 RX345
44 567 747SP-70 R3035 RG095 RX347
45 676 747SP-Z5 R3310 RH102 RV568

First row = number count of 747SP aircraft
Second row = 747 final assembly line number
Third row = aircraft type , incl Boeing customer code, e.g. 21 = PanAm
Fourth row = basic number (35 aircraft R3001-R3035, 10 aircraft R3301-R3310)
Fifth row = variable (Tabulation) number
Sixth row = engine installation number (RX = PW JT-9D series, RV = RR RB211-524 series)
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
surrodox2001
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Re: 747SP fifth pod ?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:24 pm

Don't know there's other airlines operated RR 747SPs. Thanks for your data.
But yeah, AFAIK only Qantas operated 747SPs on commercial routes. (I saw a few Saudia on this list, they use them on commercial flights as well?) (The last one is for VIP use I think.)
 
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747classic
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Re: 747SP fifth pod ?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:57 pm

Seen the low number of RR powered 747SP aircraft, it seems that no customer, requested this option to be included, because of the relative high costs for certification.
I even doubt if Boeing offered this 747SP/RR 5th pod option, seen that most 747SP/RR aircraft are late built examples. At that point in time sufficent numbers of freighters and 747combi's were available for an AOG engine transport, if needed.
Certification of a fifth pod operation for the two Qantas 747SP aircraft was certainly not needed, because a 747-238B could always be used to transport a spare engine for an AOG 747SP-38.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: 747SP fifth pod ?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:30 pm

Is anyone aware of NZ ever used the 5th on the 742 or RR 744s?
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: 747SP fifth pod ?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:53 pm

747classic wrote:
Out of a total of 45 built 747SP aircraft, 6 were powered by RR engines, 39 with PW engines.

20 329 747SP-68 R3020 RH101 RV508

37 505 747SP-38 R3305 RH111 RV523

39 529 747SP-68 R3307 RH121 RV533

41 537 747SP-38 R3308 RH112 RV537
42 560 747SP-68 R3309 RH122 RV541

45 676 747SP-Z5 R3310 RH102 RV568

Second row = 747 final assembly line number
Third row = aircraft type , incl Boeing customer code, e.g. 21 = PanAm

So, three -68s, two -38s and one -Z5
The three Saudi a/c, masquerading as regular airline machines;
HZ-HM1, now HZ-HM1B (21652), HZ-AIF (22503), HZ-AIJ aka HZ-HM1C (22750),

The two Qantas birds VH-EAA & EAB (22495 & 22672)
Don't you just love the huge "SP" titles, on the fuselage and on the tail. :bigthumbsup:
Of course, if you prefer the newer Qantas scheme you don't get any of that...

And finally UAE A6-ZSN, later Bahrain A9C-HAK (seen here at LHR as A6-ZSN, with the much travelled A7-AHM in the background - happy days!)
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: 747SP fifth pod ?

Sun Apr 12, 2020 12:44 am

747classic wrote:
I even doubt if Boeing offered this 747SP/RR 5th pod option, seen that most 747SP/RR aircraft are late built examples. At that point in time sufficent numbers of freighters and 747combi's were available for an AOG engine transport,

Call me pedantic, but "late built" is questionable. Excluding the one-off Abu Dhabi machine, all of the SPs were built in a six-year period (1976-82), and not much changed in outsize cargo capacity in that short time.
IIRC apart from a USAF C-5, the only options for such an outsize cargo were 747-200F and -200C, and they only made up 86 examples in total, with deliveries extending thru' to 1989, (suggesting that many of those were not yet in service in '82). There wouldn't have been too many hanging around on street corners "looking for work". :lol:

The Cargo world was a completely different place in those days, evidenced by Flying Tigers acquisition of Seaboard World. . "It (Flying Tigers) surpassed Pan American World Airways in 1980 as the world's largest air cargo carrier after acquiring its rival cargo airline Seaboard World Airlines on 1 October 1980."

Pan Am were still relying on 707s for bulk of their cargo, backed up by just two 747-221Fs.
Same again for Lufthansa Cargo, who got their first 747F back in 1975, but waited until the mid 80's to acquire a second a/c. (Followed swiftly by more as cargo really "took off")

So how many 747Fs did FT have? That's tricky - a fair number of their a/c were converted -100s (without the nose door?), but I reckon at their peak they could only rustle up around a dozen genuine 747Fs (or C's) with the ability to load JT9s or RR RB211s .
That made them #1 then, but these days that number of a/c would only be a small start-up airline.

And in those days you couldn't call up the Russian AF and borrow a spare An-124 either. :shakehead:

(Anyways, that's just my two cents, and if I've got the numbers drastically wrong, blame my wayward memory) :white:
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
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747classic
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Re: 747SP fifth pod ?

Sun Apr 12, 2020 6:02 am

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
747classic wrote:
I even doubt if Boeing offered this 747SP/RR 5th pod option, seen that most 747SP/RR aircraft are late built examples. At that point in time sufficent numbers of freighters and 747combi's were available for an AOG engine transport,

Call me pedantic, but "late built" is questionable. Excluding the one-off Abu Dhabi machine, all of the SPs were built in a six-year period (1976-82), and not much changed in outsize cargo capacity in that short time.
IIRC apart from a USAF C-5, the only options for such an outsize cargo were 747-200F and -200C, and they only made up 86 examples in total, with deliveries extending thru' to 1989, (suggesting that many of those were not yet in service in '82). There wouldn't have been too many hanging around on street corners "looking for work". :lol:

The Cargo world was a completely different place in those days, evidenced by Flying Tigers acquisition of Seaboard World. . "It (Flying Tigers) surpassed Pan American World Airways in 1980 as the world's largest air cargo carrier after acquiring its rival cargo airline Seaboard World Airlines on 1 October 1980."

Pan Am were still relying on 707s for bulk of their cargo, backed up by just two 747-221Fs.
Same again for Lufthansa Cargo, who got their first 747F back in 1975, but waited until the mid 80's to acquire a second a/c. (Followed swiftly by more as cargo really "took off")

So how many 747Fs did FT have? That's tricky - a fair number of their a/c were converted -100s (without the nose door?), but I reckon at their peak they could only rustle up around a dozen genuine 747Fs (or C's) with the ability to load JT9s or RR RB211s .
That made them #1 then, but these days that number of a/c would only be a small start-up airline.

And in those days you couldn't call up the Russian AF and borrow a spare An-124 either. :shakehead:

(Anyways, that's just my two cents, and if I've got the numbers drastically wrong, blame my wayward memory) :white:


You forgot that before L/N 505 (VH-EAA) also 52 747combi's were built.

In total 11 747-200C, 42 747-200F and 52 747-200M aircraft were available at the introduction of VH-EAA.

Also before the introduction of L/N 505 (VH-EAA), Qantas already operated 3 747combi's (VH-ECA, -ECB and -ECC)
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: 747SP fifth pod ?

Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:25 pm

747classic wrote:
SheikhDjibouti wrote:
IIRC apart from a USAF C-5, the only options for such an outsize cargo were 747-200F and -200C, and they only made up 86 examples in total,

(Anyways, that's just my two cents, and if I've got the numbers drastically wrong, blame my wayward memory) :white:


You forgot that before L/N 505 (VH-EAA) also 52 747combi's were built.

In total 11 747-200C, 42 747-200F and 52 747-200M aircraft were available at the introduction of VH-EAA.

Also before the introduction of L/N 505 (VH-EAA), Qantas already operated 3 747combi's (VH-ECA, -ECB and -ECC)

As I invited criticism, I have no complaints, but I didn't "forget" - I deliberately omitted the 747Ms because I was under the impression...
a) they didn't have a nose door
b) the rear side cargo door and deck would not be able to accommodate a JT9 or RB211 engine.

Based on the fan diameters (just under 2.4m, not including the cowling, it will just fit, but what about the length (4m +)?
Boeing say "The airplane's main deck can accommodate any container or pallet used in the aviation industry today in lengths of up to 20 feet (6.1 m)."
So I guess it might be possible. But I don't want to be the guy trying to squeeze it thru against a deadline. :shakehead:

Am I wrong? Can you see an engine passing thru' these holes?
(The middle photo includes the engines on the wing for a comparison, and it doesn't look like an easy job)


Final thought; wouldn't it be easier to sling the spare engine onto the fifth pod on the Combi, and carry it as external cargo to the stranded SP? In fact any 747 could do that.... :D
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
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747classic
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Re: 747SP fifth pod ?

Sun Apr 12, 2020 5:44 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
As I invited criticism, I have no complaints, but I didn't "forget" - I deliberately omitted the 747Ms because I was under the impression...
a) they didn't have a nose door
b) the rear side cargo door and deck would not be able to accommodate a JT9 or RB211 engine.

Based on the fan diameters (just under 2.4m, not including the cowling, it will just fit, but what about the length (4m +)?
Boeing say "The airplane's main deck can accommodate any container or pallet used in the aviation industry today in lengths of up to 20 feet (6.1 m)."
So I guess it might be possible. But I don't want to be the guy trying to squeeze it thru against a deadline. :shakehead:

Am I wrong? Can you see an engine passing thru' these holes?

Final thought; wouldn't it be easier to sling the spare engine onto the fifth pod on the Combi, and carry it as external cargo to the stranded SP? In fact any 747 could do that.... :D


I personally have transported many spare engines (GE,RR and P&W) of several airlines with our KLM 747combi's.
It's possible to load all engines sizes up to the GE9X through the 747 side cargo door.
See : https://www.airfreight-logistics.com/ai ... g-of-ge9x/

Note : the side cargo doors of all 747 series have the same dimensions.

Planning a 5th pod ferry flight requires a lot of preparation :
- you have to buy the 5th pod option from Boeing, including the 5th pod set and all documentation (amended AOM. etc.)
- amended flightplanning, with reduced performance, incl. higher fuel consumption and lower operating speeds.
- Crew scheduling : Some airlines require that only technical pilot(s) perform the 5th pod ferry.
- Increased turnaround times, due installation and de-installation of the 5th pod. (this procedure is seldom performed, so will take some extra time).
- Removal of all fan blades before 5pod ferry, after arrival re-assembly of the fan section.

With the arrival of several aircraft with a maindeck cargo capacity, the need for 5th pod operation was sharply reduced, because the engine can be transported "full installation ready" at the maindeck.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: 747SP fifth pod ?

Sun Apr 12, 2020 9:46 pm

747classic wrote:
I personally have transported many spare engines (GE,RR and P&W) of several airlines with our KLM 747combi's.
It's possible to load all engines sizes up to the GE9X through the 747 side cargo door.
See : https://www.airfreight-logistics.com/ai ... g-of-ge9x/

Planning a 5th pod ferry flight requires a lot of preparation :
- you have to buy the 5th pod option from Boeing, including the 5th pod set and all documentation (amended AOM. etc.)
- amended flightplanning, with reduced performance, incl. higher fuel consumption and lower operating speeds.
- Crew scheduling : Some airlines require that only technical pilot(s) perform the 5th pod ferry.
- Increased turnaround times, due installation and de-installation of the 5th pod. (this procedure is seldom performed, so will take some extra time).
- Removal of all fan blades before 5pod ferry, after arrival re-assembly of the fan section.

With the arrival of several aircraft with a maindeck cargo capacity, the need for 5th pod operation was sharply reduced, because the engine can be transported "full installation ready" at the maindeck.

Many thx. It's good to learn something new from somebody who has been at the sharp end, to offset the wayward ramblings of amateurs such as myself. :D
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
strfyr51
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Re: 747SP fifth pod ?

Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:24 pm

there actually is a provision for a 5th Pod on an SP However? I don't think anybody ever paid to certify it. At United we installed 5th pods all the time on our 747-122's and -123's but I never saw one on the -222B's nor the 422's as maybe the STC didn't go that far. ON the 422's It was easier and I assume cheaper to ferry them back from the Far East with an engineering crew on 3 engines and not have the expense of ferrying an engine to the far east on a freighter. Which right now? Isn't and Can't be an option with the Big Twins we fly today. Could be? the shipping costs were that Bad.
 
andrej
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Re: 747SP fifth pod ?

Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:09 am

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
747classic wrote:
SheikhDjibouti wrote:
As I invited criticism, I have no complaints, but I didn't "forget" - I deliberately omitted the 747Ms because I was under the impression...
a) they didn't have a nose door
b) the rear side cargo door and deck would not be able to accommodate a JT9 or RB211 engine.

Am I wrong? Can you see an engine passing thru' these holes?

Final thought; wouldn't it be easier to sling the spare engine onto the fifth pod on the Combi, and carry it as external cargo to the stranded SP? In fact any 747 could do that.... :D


The -400M can certainly load spare engine via its side door. Are dimensions the same for -200Ms?



Loading the 5th engine takes toll on fuel on consumption and I believe you are also limited by lower cruise speed (330kts to 29,272.5', then 0.85 mach). To read more about it, see:
http://aerowinx.com/board/index.php?topic=3368.0

This thread also has a link to a following article:
http://home.bt.com/news/world-news/qantas-boeing-747-takes-off-with-excess-baggage-a-spare-engine-for-another-jumbo-jet-11364032579332#article_video

So unless you are leaving revenue generating cargo behind, I would load it inside. :smile:
 
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747classic
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Re: 747SP fifth pod ?

Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:23 am

andrej wrote:

The -400M can certainly load spare engine via its side door. Are dimensions the same for -200Ms?


As stated above all 747 main deck side cargo doors have the same dimensions on all 747 series from the 747-100 up to the 747-8F, factory installed or installed (modified ) afterwards.

747 series involved : 747-100SF, -100M, -200F, 200C, -200M, -200SF, -300M, -300SF, -400F, -400M, -400BCF, -400BDSF, -8F.

Detailed info :

Up to L/N 1419 , all combi, convertible and freighters were factory delivered with the same type of maindeck side cargo door with six window frames, partly blanked out (or plugged) in the cargo mode. Mostly only the aft window frame was used as a window in the cargo mode.
Also several 747-100, 200B, 300 and 400 aircraft were later converted to Special freighter (-SF), -BCF or BDSF standard with the addition of the same side cargo door.




However, with the introduction of the 747-8F, the door design was changed (weightsaving) to a maindeck side cargo door with only one window frame installed, but the dimensions remained the same.

Image

Original uploaded by John Ostrower, see : https://www.flickr.com/photos/flightblo ... 3280980561
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
andrej
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Re: 747SP fifth pod ?

Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:24 am

747classic wrote:
andrej wrote:

The -400M can certainly load spare engine via its side door. Are dimensions the same for -200Ms?


As stated above all 747 main deck side cargo doors have the same dimensions on all 747 series from the 747-100 up to the 747-8F, factory installed or installed (modified ) afterwards.


Thank you sir! I must have missed that confirmation. I thought that it was the case, but did not want to state something that I was not sure of.

747classic wrote:
However, with the introduction of the 747-8F, the door design was changed (weightsaving) to a maindeck side cargo door with only one window frame installed, but the dimensions remained the same.

Image

Original uploaded by John Ostrower, see : https://www.flickr.com/photos/flightblo ... 3280980561


I actually remember that! :smile: Interesting that Boeing made this decision only after introduction -8F.
Theoretically, could one replace old SCD version (six window frames) with a new SCD version (one window frame)? Assuming weight savings would offset/justify replacement costs.
 
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Re: 747SP fifth pod ?

Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:24 am

747classic wrote:
I personally have transported many spare engines (GE,RR and P&W) of several airlines with our KLM 747combi's.
It's possible to load all engines sizes up to the GE9X through the 747 side cargo door.
See : https://www.airfreight-logistics.com/ai ... g-of-ge9x/

Note : the side cargo doors of all 747 series have the same dimensions.


Be aware that article is a little misleading, if you read the text eventually you get the full story.

"The propulsor core of the engine with the height of 2.85 cm and weight of 11,545kg was loaded onto the 747-8 airplane"

The largest engine (fan and core combined) I've carried on a 747F was a GEnx and it only barely fit.

The maximum 747 side cargo door entry height is quoted as 124" (the same as a 777F) the GE9x fan diameter is 134" It won't even fit if it's removed from the core and placed lying flat as the maximum width is 130". The 777F however has a 146.5" door width.
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Re: 747SP fifth pod ?

Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:44 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
Is anyone aware of NZ ever used the 5th on the 742 or RR 744s?


They definitely did on their 742, I have a photo buried at home somewhere of one turning off RWY 25 in SYD.

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