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Qatar 777 Freighter in Bremen

Posted: Sat May 02, 2020 4:54 pm
by mchei
Bremen is a small airport in Northern Germany.
Normally, and before Corona of course, A 319, 220, 320, 321 and B 737-800 plus E-Jets land here.
Last year, AlMasria Airlines from Egypt sent an A 330 which was nice to see.

Today, a Qatar 777 Freighter, A7-BFD, landed here bringing medical equipment. This is a one-of-a-kind event and I was wondering how heavy this thing can be at the moment of landing and take off.

BRE has a 2,634 meters runway. Under normal circumstances, only 2,034 meters may be used. I believe this is due to noise abatement procedures.

So, how heavy can this Qatar 777 possibly be at landing and takeoff?

Your help is greatly appreciated.

Stay safe everyone!

Re: Qatar 777 Freighter in Bremen

Posted: Sat May 02, 2020 6:57 pm
by Stitch
As Bremen is effectively at Sea Level, if I am reading the ACAP correctly, it looks to be around 235,000kg for landing (Standard Day conditions). I expect it was lighter than that considering medical supplies are probably not that heavy and it would likely be landing with little fuel.

For takeoff, Operating Empty Weight for a 777F is around 145,000kg so add to that the fuel needed to get her either home to Qatar or wherever her next destination would be. The ACAP looks like 2000m allows for a TOW of ~275,000kg (again, Standard Day conditions) so no worries, there.

Re: Qatar 777 Freighter in Bremen

Posted: Sun May 03, 2020 12:46 am
by Starlionblue
Looking at the charts, the runway is actually 2034 meters. The extensions on either end are designated as taxiways with turning circles.

Interesting that these are not counted even counted as stopway.

Re: Qatar 777 Freighter in Bremen

Posted: Sun May 03, 2020 7:19 am
by mchei
Thank you!

Bremen indeed is only a few feet elevated - around 10 or 15 ft.
Yesterday we had some light rain showers and temperatures around 15 degrees Celsius with winds of 10 knots.

As far as I know, Airbus uses the full length (the 2,600 meters) when they fly in their Belugas bringing parts for the local wing plant.

Re: Qatar 777 Freighter in Bremen

Posted: Sun May 03, 2020 7:48 am
by mchei
Quick update:
This has been quite an event for the local spotters.
If you want to see pictures from an airport you most likely have never heard about and will never hear about again with an aircraft that this airport will never see again, check this out:

https://bre-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=16 ... 2ba925d885

(go to the second page of the thread for pics)

Re: Qatar 777 Freighter in Bremen

Posted: Sun May 03, 2020 11:48 am
by Starlionblue
mchei wrote:
Thank you!

Bremen indeed is only a few feet elevated - around 10 or 15 ft.
Yesterday we had some light rain showers and temperatures around 15 degrees Celsius with winds of 10 knots.

As far as I know, Airbus uses the full length (the 2,600 meters) when they fly in their Belugas bringing parts for the local wing plant.


You can't derive anything from an airliner using the full length. We derate thrust to reduce wear on the engines. We almost always can take off using a shorter run but we don't because of wear and tear.

Re: Qatar 777 Freighter in Bremen

Posted: Sun May 03, 2020 4:37 pm
by mchei
Starlionblue wrote:

You can't derive anything from an airliner using the full length. We derate thrust to reduce wear on the engines. We almost always can take off using a shorter run but we don't because of wear and tear.


True! But how come all aircraft landing and departing are only allowed to use the 2,000 meters whereas Airbus with the Beluga may use the 2,600 meters? I can hardly imagine they approached the authorities saying that they’d like to reduce the engine wear and tear on their Belugas and thus asking for the full length that officially doesn’t even exist. Perhaps they use it as an extra margin or so.
But then again, as I don’t have any official information whether or not Airbus is using the 600 meters, all of this is anecdotal. Thanks anyways!

Re: Qatar 777 Freighter in Bremen

Posted: Sun May 03, 2020 7:03 pm
by unimproved
mchei wrote:
Starlionblue wrote:

You can't derive anything from an airliner using the full length. We derate thrust to reduce wear on the engines. We almost always can take off using a shorter run but we don't because of wear and tear.


True! But how come all aircraft landing and departing are only allowed to use the 2,000 meters whereas Airbus with the Beluga may use the 2,600 meters? I can hardly imagine they approached the authorities saying that they’d like to reduce the engine wear and tear on their Belugas and thus asking for the full length that officially doesn’t even exist. Perhaps they use it as an extra margin or so.
But then again, as I don’t have any official information whether or not Airbus is using the 600 meters, all of this is anecdotal. Thanks anyways!

If it's considered taxiway, wouldn't they be able to do a rolling take off? That it isn't officially a runway is only for planning and limits.

Re: Qatar 777 Freighter in Bremen

Posted: Sun May 03, 2020 11:06 pm
by Starlionblue
unimproved wrote:
mchei wrote:
Starlionblue wrote:

You can't derive anything from an airliner using the full length. We derate thrust to reduce wear on the engines. We almost always can take off using a shorter run but we don't because of wear and tear.


True! But how come all aircraft landing and departing are only allowed to use the 2,000 meters whereas Airbus with the Beluga may use the 2,600 meters? I can hardly imagine they approached the authorities saying that they’d like to reduce the engine wear and tear on their Belugas and thus asking for the full length that officially doesn’t even exist. Perhaps they use it as an extra margin or so.
But then again, as I don’t have any official information whether or not Airbus is using the 600 meters, all of this is anecdotal. Thanks anyways!

If it's considered taxiway, wouldn't they be able to do a rolling take off? That it isn't officially a runway is only for planning and limits.


They could do a rolling take-off, but looking at the charts there appears to be taxiway at either end. So they'd only get the very slight advantage of rolling on one end.

Re: Qatar 777 Freighter in Bremen

Posted: Mon May 04, 2020 1:37 am
by zeke
mchei wrote:
True! But how come all aircraft landing and departing are only allowed to use the 2,000 meters whereas Airbus with the Beluga may use the 2,600 meters? I can hardly imagine they approached the authorities saying that they’d like to reduce the engine wear and tear on their Belugas and thus asking for the full length that officially doesn’t even exist. Perhaps they use it as an extra margin or so.
But then again, as I don’t have any official information whether or not Airbus is using the 600 meters, all of this is anecdotal. Thanks anyways!


Maybe the extensions were paid for by Airbus and restricted to their use only. Just like the taxiways F1&F2 are restricted to Airbus factory aircraft.