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dennys
Topic Author
Posts: 689
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 11:19 pm

Did EL AL 720Bs every fly NYC ?

Thu May 14, 2020 4:49 pm

Hello Dears ,

On old ELAL timetables the two types B-707/B720Bs are mixed up . Nethertheless i see some flights making two stops on the way to NYC , such as TLV ZRH LON NYC . Can some of you confirm the LY 720B flew NYC ?

Many thanks for memories !

Cheers
Last edited by SQ22 on Thu May 14, 2020 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: All caps
 
iRISH251
Posts: 770
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 3:56 am

Re: Did EL AL 720Bs every fly NYC ?

Fri May 15, 2020 8:32 am

Unlikely, I'd have thought., since the carrier had more capable 707-320B/Cs and 707-420s at the same time. The 720B was really a medium-haul aircraft. Multi-stop routeings were not unusual in those times.
 
hitower3
Posts: 143
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:55 am

Re: Did EL AL 720Bs every fly NYC ?

Mon May 18, 2020 2:17 pm

Dear denny,

Let me try go through the numbers:
With a OEW of 51.2t (I am surprised how light that plane is!) and a MTOW of 106,1t, the aircraft has 54,9t to share among payload and fuel.
Assuming 112 pax (typical 2-class) and 4t of cargo, we have about 15t of payload, leaving about 40t for fuel.
Assuming a fuel burn of 5,5t/h and a speed of 450kn over ground, a distance over ground of 3'000nm from London-Heathrow to New York Idlewild (it was to become JFK only later...), we are facing a flight time of 6h40min, resulting in a trip fuel of 36,67t. This leaves only 3,33t of reserves, which is too little.
Even by leaving behind any cargo, the reserve would increase to 7,33t, still on the low side.

Bottom line, the B720B would be barely suitable for this mission. While theoretically cabable to fly it at the edge of its payload-range envelope, El Al had more capable aircraft in the fleet, comfortably and economically managing this mission.

Best regards,
Hendric
 
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MoKa777
Posts: 1039
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:47 am

Re: Did EL AL 720Bs every fly NYC ?

Tue May 19, 2020 4:31 am

hitower3 wrote:
Dear denny,

Let me try go through the numbers:
With a OEW of 51.2t (I am surprised how light that plane is!) and a MTOW of 106,1t, the aircraft has 54,9t to share among payload and fuel.
Assuming 112 pax (typical 2-class) and 4t of cargo, we have about 15t of payload, leaving about 40t for fuel.
Assuming a fuel burn of 5,5t/h and a speed of 450kn over ground, a distance over ground of 3'000nm from London-Heathrow to New York Idlewild (it was to become JFK only later...), we are facing a flight time of 6h40min, resulting in a trip fuel of 36,67t. This leaves only 3,33t of reserves, which is too little.
Even by leaving behind any cargo, the reserve would increase to 7,33t, still on the low side.

Bottom line, the B720B would be barely suitable for this mission. While theoretically cabable to fly it at the edge of its payload-range envelope, El Al had more capable aircraft in the fleet, comfortably and economically managing this mission.

Best regards,
Hendric


This is a wonderful, informative post!
Never be proud. Always be grateful.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
Posts: 2030
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:59 pm

Re: Did EL AL 720Bs every fly NYC ?

Wed May 20, 2020 2:29 pm

hitower3 wrote:
With a OEW of 51.2t (I am surprised how light that plane is!) and a MTOW of 106,1t, the aircraft has 54,9t to share among payload and fuel.
...
Bottom line, the B720B would be barely suitable for this mission. While theoretically cabable to fly it at the edge of its payload-range envelope, El Al had more capable aircraft in the fleet, comfortably and economically managing this mission.

Hendric


I usually opt for Wikipedia to help out, but then I come across some real gems that leave you wondering, like this one.
Wikipedia wrote:
In the late 1960s, 720 and 720B aircraft were used by the US military to shuttle troops to the Far-East war efforts. The interiors of these planes were stripped of class partitions. Some of these flights originated at Travis AFB California and flew nonstop to Japan.

Nonstop? If that's true, that's 4,500 nm.
I like Wikipedia, but on this occasion..... :scratchchin:
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
BravoOne
Posts: 4024
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: Did EL AL 720Bs every fly NYC ?

Wed May 20, 2020 2:43 pm

I ws at Pan Am during some of these MAC flights and no we did not fly non stop between Travis and Japan. Did ferry a 320C from Okinawa back to SFO once as I recall. Usually the flight went from Travis or Norton to ANC and then over. Only saw a B720B once Vietnam and everyone said, how dd that wind up here? Probably doing RR flights to HKG. The 707-320B/C was the mainstay for Pan Am's MAC operations.
 
B777LRF
Posts: 2654
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:23 am

Re: Did EL AL 720Bs every fly NYC ?

Sat May 23, 2020 3:40 pm

In the 80s, Conair of Scandinavia flew the 720B between Copenhagen and Banjul, which is around 2900NM as the crow flies. 179 bums on seats, no cargo but loads of tax-free for onboard the sales.

The first flight of the season always attracted a fair amount of attention, as it would not only carry the pax both also the content of the entire office of the travel agency; everything from chairs to tables and all the stationary you can think of. Those flights used all of the runway and staggered to heaven on the ragged edge of the performance envelope. Wasn't unusual to stop in FAO in both directions for a top-up, but it was planned as a non-stop.
Signature. You just read one.
 
BravoOne
Posts: 4024
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: Did EL AL 720Bs every fly NYC ?

Sat May 23, 2020 3:46 pm

B777LRF wrote:
In the 80s, Conair of Scandinavia flew the 720B between Copenhagen and Banjul, which is around 2900NM as the crow flies. 179 bums on seats, no cargo but loads of tax-free for onboard the sales.

The first flight of the season always attracted a fair amount of attention, as it would not only carry the pax both also the content of the entire office of the travel agency; everything from chairs to tables and all the stationary you can think of. Those flights used all of the runway and staggered to heaven on the ragged edge of the performance envelope. Wasn't unusual to stop in FAO in both directions for a top-up, but it was planned as a non-stop.



Fortunately the 720B was as close to a rocket ship as any airliner of it time, Very good performance!

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