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hitower3
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Posts: 172
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:55 am

Airbus technical "genealogy"

Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:55 pm

Dear all,

I was thinking about tracing back the technical evolution of Airbus airliners. This means, how did the technology evolve from older models into the current line-up.

For some aircraft it's pretty straightforward: Let's take the A330 NEO - it's based on the CEO with some refined engines (RR Trent 700 -> Trent 7000) and optimized aerodynamics. The 330CEO in turn is an overhaul of the original A300, with an entirely new wing, significantly upgraded engines and flight deck design (FBW taken over from the A320).

But now let's take the original A320. Being a so-called "clean sheet" design, it didn't have a direct predecessor. I am still quite sure that Airbus did not develop everything from scratch, so:
- Did they take the FBW system from the Concorde (analog) and updated it to a digital version? I once heard the system came from the Jaguar instead.
- Did they take the fuselage from the Dassault Mercure (I would rather say no, as the diameter differs) or any British design?
- Where were similar electrical, hydraulic, fuel system designs found in earlier aircraft? The A320 is very different from the A300 in these regards.

One item made it directly from the Concorde into every Airbus aircraft until today: The triple chime alerting the pilots that the AP was disengaged!

I am looking forward to read your insights.

Best regards,
Hendric
 
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Starlionblue
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Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

Re: Airbus technical "genealogy"

Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:54 pm

I can't really answer any of the specific questions, apart from saying that some systems did come from the Jaguar.

One correction though. The triple chime, ("dit, dit, dit") is called the "triple click" and it does not indicate AP disengagement. It indicates an automatic mode reversion. AP disengagement is indicated by the "cavalry charge" sound.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
hitower3
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Posts: 172
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Re: Airbus technical "genealogy"

Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:00 pm

Starlionblue wrote:
The triple chime, ("dit, dit, dit") is called the "triple click" and it does not indicate AP disengagement. It indicates an automatic mode reversion. AP disengagement is indicated by the "cavalry charge" sound.

Ok, I stand corrected.
It is the cavalry charge "bleeep bleep bleeep" that came straight from the Concorde.

Best regards,
Hendric
 
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Starlionblue
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Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

Re: Airbus technical "genealogy"

Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:12 am

hitower3 wrote:
Starlionblue wrote:
The triple chime, ("dit, dit, dit") is called the "triple click" and it does not indicate AP disengagement. It indicates an automatic mode reversion. AP disengagement is indicated by the "cavalry charge" sound.

Ok, I stand corrected.
It is the cavalry charge "bleeep bleep bleeep" that came straight from the Concorde.

Best regards,
Hendric


Got it.

You can hear the cavalry at the seven minute mark here. However you only hear one repetition. On the 'bus, it repeats for 1.5 seconds unless you click the disconnect button again. Might be the same on Concorde but you can't really see his hands at that point.

https://youtu.be/1bjzoh3iQJc?t=415
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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northstardc4m
Posts: 3393
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Re: Airbus technical "genealogy"

Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:21 am

The direct family tree for the designs is:

A380 from A3XX distantly from A300B14 and 15 design studies

A350 from A350XWB new design study from failed original A350 design which was derived from A330/340.

A320 family came from NB design studies, NB2 design closest to end product A320. Some NB design study work came from Aerospatiale Caravelle replacement design studies.

A310 from A300B10 design studies
A330 from A300B11 design studies
A340 from A300B9 design studies

B9 and B11 are switched around sometimes in articles and documents, but I've been assured the above is correct.

Also A300B1, B2, B4 built as stated. B6 became A300-600.

Unbuilt ones:

B3 RB211 powered version for BEA
B5 slight stretch of B4 for Asian markets
B7 trijet
B8 stretched twin
B12 and B13 unknown?

A300BB10 cooperation attempt with Boeing on 767/A310 size... Did not get far.

AE316/317 China co-venture for A320 family wing on new narrower fuselage.

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TOGA10
Posts: 269
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:49 am

Re: Airbus technical "genealogy"

Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:07 pm

Starlionblue wrote:
hitower3 wrote:
Starlionblue wrote:
The triple chime, ("dit, dit, dit") is called the "triple click" and it does not indicate AP disengagement. It indicates an automatic mode reversion. AP disengagement is indicated by the "cavalry charge" sound.

Ok, I stand corrected.
It is the cavalry charge "bleeep bleep bleeep" that came straight from the Concorde.

Best regards,
Hendric


Got it.

You can hear the cavalry at the seven minute mark here. However you only hear one repetition. On the 'bus, it repeats for 1.5 seconds unless you click the disconnect button again. Might be the same on Concorde but you can't really see his hands at that point.

https://youtu.be/1bjzoh3iQJc?t=415

Great video, thanks so much for sharing!
I wanna go back upstairs!
 
hitower3
Topic Author
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:55 am

Re: Airbus technical

Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:28 pm

northstardc4m wrote:
The direct family tree for the designs is:
A330 from A300B11 design studies
A340 from A300B9 design studies

B9 and B11 are switched around sometimes in articles and documents, but I've been assured the above is correct.


Dear northstar,

Many thanks for your insightful answer, it was a highly interesting read.
However, regarding the A300B11 / B9 statement, I would like to cite the following article:
https://www.flightglobal.com/airbus-supplement-a330-a340/17863.article

In this article, they write that the A300B9 was renamed TA9 (TA for Twin Aisle) and the A300B11 TA11.
They clearly state that TA9 was to become the A330 and the TA11 the A340.
A possible explanation for these seemingly contradictory statements is that initially, the quad TA11 was to be named "A330", whereas the twin TA9 was to be named "A340", because the two projects were to be completed in this order (quad TA11 first, then the twin TA9). They then decided to interchange the names of the two aircraft, stating that the quad would more logically be called "340", because there is the number "4" in the designation.

So, to make things clear, "TA9 always designated the twin project, TA11 the quad.

Anyway, this is exactly the stuff I am looking for, keep it coming!

Many thanks & best regards,
Hendric

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