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bahadir
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Two types of different surfaces for the same runway?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:24 am

I know the title sounds odd but it came up during a conversation with a friend. Can a runway be constructed as 1/3 concrete and 2/3 asphalt surface ? Would this be detrimental on breaking ?

I tried to look up the AC150 on FAA but I got lost in all the technical stuff.

Thanks
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deltadudejg
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Re: Two types of different surfaces for the same runway?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:53 am

I'm curious as well, work in Airport Ops and we had the same discussion. Have concrete touchdown zones and asphalt center. Would be hard to maintain the transition but I'd be curious. I feel like I have seen grass strips with concrete ends.
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B52overSMF
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Re: Two types of different surfaces for the same runway?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:46 am

I can answer from experience of landing on them that there are indeed runways, with both types of surfaces (at least in the U.S.) on the same runway. This is both at airports serving primarily smaller G.A. and ones that serve air carriers. In fact, earlier this year while flying for an air carrier I was surprised to be on approach to one that was all asphalt except for the first 1/3. Unfortunately, I cannot tell you where off the top of my head. :-/

I remember the afore-mentioned runway was dry so there were no braking action reports but I would assume they'd be reported the same way through FICON NOTAMs as if it were one surface type--into the different sections of runway (3/3/3, or 2/3/5, etc.). Additionally, I can recall mentions of different surfaces on runways in the AFD/Chart Supplement at some small G.A. airports as well. They may have included a caution about potential traction changes.
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HotelWhiskey
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Re: Two types of different surfaces for the same runway?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:08 am

Atleast in ZRH (LSZH) they have 2 runways, 16/34 and 14/32 which are 2/3 concrete and 1/3 asphalt with the asphalt being in the middle
 
dcs921
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Re: Two types of different surfaces for the same runway?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:35 am

IIRC some of the runways at CVG are a mix of concrete and asphalt.
 
ClipperGoodwill
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Re: Two types of different surfaces for the same runway?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:50 am

RWY 18R/36L at MCO has a mix of both concrete and asphalt. It basically has a concrete keel down the center with asphalt around it. The other runways are all concrete.
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conaly
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Re: Two types of different surfaces for the same runway?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:00 am

In Nuremberg (NUE/EDDN), the runway is an interesting mix of concrete and asphalt. In the past, the western third was purely concrete, the eastern two thirds purely asphalt. After some pavement works on the concrete area now the center area of the western third is asphalt, while the sides are still concrete, excluding the new shoulders, which are asphalt again. If you use the google earth tool to go through historical views, you clearly see how it changed between 2009 and 2012. They also added asphalt shoulders on the whole length of the runway extending the width from 45 to 60m. So at some areas you have from side to side asphalt/concrete/asphalt/concrete/asphalt.
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B777Driver
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Re: Two types of different surfaces for the same runway?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:59 am

The reason why some of the runways first part is concrete is to avoid melting of the asphalte because of the high power settings at the beginning of the take-off (slow speed more time in the same spot) especially where there is military jets (after-burn)
 
uta999
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Re: Two types of different surfaces for the same runway?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:36 am

B777Driver wrote:
The reason why some of the runways first part is concrete is to avoid melting of the asphalt because of the high power settings at the beginning of the take-off (slow speed more time in the same spot) especially where there is military jets (after-burn)


Here is an extreme example of the effect on asphalt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gX3_mQZ4gY8
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spacecadet
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Re: Two types of different surfaces for the same runway?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:16 am

KIWA runway 12C/30C is about 1/2 concrete, 1/2 asphalt. The other two runways are concrete. You can easily see this on Google Maps.
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HECA
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Re: Two types of different surfaces for the same runway?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:11 pm

There's a very clear picture of this combination in the new third runway at Istanbul Airport - shared in the Turkish Aviation June 2020 thread:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1446995&start=100#p22276225
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socalatc
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Re: Two types of different surfaces for the same runway?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:13 pm

bahadir wrote:
I know the title sounds odd but it came up during a conversation with a friend. Can a runway be constructed as 1/3 concrete and 2/3 asphalt surface ? Would this be detrimental on breaking ?

I tried to look up the AC150 on FAA but I got lost in all the technical stuff.

Thanks


Good morning. At LAX they have 2 runways that started as concrete but due to poor quality they dig up the center section and replaced it with asphalt. It’s been like that for several years.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Two types of different surfaces for the same runway?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:28 pm

KOA has concrete at the threshold of runway 17 where the rest is ashpalt I believe.

Not sure if this is because of heat / melting due to high power settings at start of takeoff roll and/or for visibiliy since the runway in an old dark lava field.
 
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AirKevin
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Re: Two types of different surfaces for the same runway?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:35 pm

Newark runway 4L/22R is also like that.
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bahadir
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Re: Two types of different surfaces for the same runway?

Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:19 am

AirKevin wrote:
Newark runway 4L/22R is also like that.

Flew in and out of there gazillion times and never noticed it. :) thanks
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trijetsonly
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Re: Two types of different surfaces for the same runway?

Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:59 pm

Frankfurts takeoff-only runway 18 is the same way:

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Gr8Circle
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Re: Two types of different surfaces for the same runway?

Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:34 pm

bahadir wrote:
Would this be detrimental on breaking ?


I'm not usually one to point out spelling and grammatical errors, but when launching such topics you need to pay special attention.....the last word in that sentence can have drastically different meanings in an aviation discussion, depending on how you spell it :wink2:
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: Two types of different surfaces for the same runway?

Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:11 pm

CPT also has a couple of 'patches' where asphalt was used in lieu of concrete.
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Starlionblue
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Re: Two types of different surfaces for the same runway?

Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:16 pm

I've flown off a runway that was one-third packed dirt and two-thirds asphalt. The trick was to keep about 65% throttle on the dirt until you got to the asphalt bit. Once you passed the distinct "step" to the asphalt, push the throttle to full.

Wouldn't want to do that in a jet, but in 152s and 172s it was good times. :D
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kitplane01
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Re: Two types of different surfaces for the same runway?

Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:20 am

Beaver Island Michigan has a runway. It's listed as 2500x30 feet. But no one uses 30 foot wide runways for commercial passenger service, so the keep the grass on either side of it useable. So in real life, it's a runway with asphalt down the middle 1/3 and grass down the outer 2/3rds.

Also, 2500 foot long with trees past either end has to be on the list of shortest runways used for commercial passenger service.

Weird.

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