Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
slinker
Topic Author
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:15 am

DC-10/MD-11 with only engine number 2?

Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:04 am

Can a DC-10/MD-11 fly and land if only the tail engine is functional? I imagine it couldn't take off (at least not at standard weight) with just #2, but hypothetically if both wing engines died during flight could it still manage controlled descent?

Also, anyone know if this has ever happened?

Thanks!
 
VSMUT
Posts: 4255
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: DC-10/MD-11 with only engine number 2?

Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:55 am

It depends on the weight, but an extended glide is probably the best you could hope for.

Aircraft have enough power to fly with one engine failed, that's a certification requirement. There is no requirement for more than one failed engine, and power costs money, so aircraft are typically only provided with just enough thrust.
 
CosmicCruiser
Posts: 2419
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:01 am

Re: DC-10/MD-11 with only engine number 2?

Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:50 pm

We did it the sim all the time. V1 cut then at about 1,000' lose the other one. Dump immediately and you would fly.
 
CosmicCruiser
Posts: 2419
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:01 am

Re: DC-10/MD-11 with only engine number 2?

Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:52 pm

Obviously in cruise you would make a gradual descent to a lower altitude.
 
bohica
Posts: 2434
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 3:21 pm

Re: DC-10/MD-11 with only engine number 2?

Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:35 pm

 
Max Q
Posts: 8279
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: DC-10/MD-11 with only engine number 2?

Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:19 am

You could fly on one engine in the 727 (barely) as long as you cleaned up immediately and started the dump you could get about 2-300 fpm climb out of it and return for a F5 continuously decelerating approach



But you had to take action right away or you’d hit the ground
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
IFlyVeryLittle
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:31 pm

Re: DC-10/MD-11 with only engine number 2?

Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:24 pm

Im curious about the Eastern incident noted above: How would the NTSB determine a mechanic forgot to fit the O-rings? Surely, a simple question to said mechanic would render the obvious answer: "Of course I fitted them'' because surely if he knew he hadn't, he wouldn't have forgotten to fit them in the first place, yes? Im not trying to be glib, but are investigators looking for the "O rings, what O rings?" answer, or do they go back and look for evidence of three parts pulled from inventory but not three associated O-rings? Or do they dig through the engine, find there are no O-rings and simply deduce the mechanic who did the recent work didn't install them?
 
FlyHossD
Posts: 2069
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:45 pm

Re: DC-10/MD-11 with only engine number 2?

Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:43 pm

IFlyVeryLittle wrote:
Im curious about the Eastern incident noted above: How would the NTSB determine a mechanic forgot to fit the O-rings? Surely, a simple question to said mechanic would render the obvious answer: "Of course I fitted them'' because surely if he knew he hadn't, he wouldn't have forgotten to fit them in the first place, yes? Im not trying to be glib, but are investigators looking for the "O rings, what O rings?" answer, or do they go back and look for evidence of three parts pulled from inventory but not three associated O-rings? Or do they dig through the engine, find there are no O-rings and simply deduce the mechanic who did the recent work didn't install them?


IIRC, the O-rings were found to NOT be installed. If that was the case, the finding is both simple and firm.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
unimproved
Posts: 190
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:14 pm

Re: DC-10/MD-11 with only engine number 2?

Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:47 pm

All depends on the weight. OEW is about the same as A332 while thrust is slightly less.

IFlyVeryLittle wrote:
Im curious about the Eastern incident noted above: How would the NTSB determine a mechanic forgot to fit the O-rings? Surely, a simple question to said mechanic would render the obvious answer: "Of course I fitted them'' because surely if he knew he hadn't, he wouldn't have forgotten to fit them in the first place, yes? Im not trying to be glib, but are investigators looking for the "O rings, what O rings?" answer, or do they go back and look for evidence of three parts pulled from inventory but not three associated O-rings? Or do they dig through the engine, find there are no O-rings and simply deduce the mechanic who did the recent work didn't install them?


All work is logged in maintenance records, so they looked at the last mechanic to install that part.
 
User avatar
fr8mech
Posts: 8024
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

Re: DC-10/MD-11 with only engine number 2?

Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:17 pm

IFlyVeryLittle wrote:
Im curious about the Eastern incident noted above: How would the NTSB determine a mechanic forgot to fit the O-rings? Surely, a simple question to said mechanic would render the obvious answer: "Of course I fitted them'' because surely if he knew he hadn't, he wouldn't have forgotten to fit them in the first place, yes? Im not trying to be glib, but are investigators looking for the "O rings, what O rings?" answer, or do they go back and look for evidence of three parts pulled from inventory but not three associated O-rings? Or do they dig through the engine, find there are no O-rings and simply deduce the mechanic who did the recent work didn't install them?


An aside from the topic question, but an important aside.

This is an event that just about every mechanic in the industry at the time, and later, heard about and, hopefully, learned from.

The chip detector check was a time controlled item, and as I recall, at reduced intervals because the RB211 installed on the L1011 was junk...at least early on.

The task was routine and done “all the time”. The mechanics would normally grab the new chip detectors from the foreman’s office. Those chip detectors would be ready to go with o-rings installed. On this particular night, there weren’t any in the office, so the detectors were pulled from stock. None of the mechanics involved noticed that the detectors did not have o-rings installed.

The rest is history.

If you can find the NTSB report, it is instructive.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. ~B. Murray
Ego Bibere Capulus, Ut Aliis Sit Vivere
 
slinker
Topic Author
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:15 am

Re: DC-10/MD-11 with only engine number 2?

Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:50 am

Thanks for the replies!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Angelovo, dcs921 and 23 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos