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DC-10/MD-11 with only engine number 2?

Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:04 am
by slinker
Can a DC-10/MD-11 fly and land if only the tail engine is functional? I imagine it couldn't take off (at least not at standard weight) with just #2, but hypothetically if both wing engines died during flight could it still manage controlled descent?

Also, anyone know if this has ever happened?

Thanks!

Re: DC-10/MD-11 with only engine number 2?

Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:55 am
by VSMUT
It depends on the weight, but an extended glide is probably the best you could hope for.

Aircraft have enough power to fly with one engine failed, that's a certification requirement. There is no requirement for more than one failed engine, and power costs money, so aircraft are typically only provided with just enough thrust.

Re: DC-10/MD-11 with only engine number 2?

Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:50 pm
by CosmicCruiser
We did it the sim all the time. V1 cut then at about 1,000' lose the other one. Dump immediately and you would fly.

Re: DC-10/MD-11 with only engine number 2?

Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:52 pm
by CosmicCruiser
Obviously in cruise you would make a gradual descent to a lower altitude.

Re: DC-10/MD-11 with only engine number 2?

Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:35 pm
by bohica

Re: DC-10/MD-11 with only engine number 2?

Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:19 am
by Max Q
You could fly on one engine in the 727 (barely) as long as you cleaned up immediately and started the dump you could get about 2-300 fpm climb out of it and return for a F5 continuously decelerating approach



But you had to take action right away or you’d hit the ground

Re: DC-10/MD-11 with only engine number 2?

Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:24 pm
by IFlyVeryLittle
Im curious about the Eastern incident noted above: How would the NTSB determine a mechanic forgot to fit the O-rings? Surely, a simple question to said mechanic would render the obvious answer: "Of course I fitted them'' because surely if he knew he hadn't, he wouldn't have forgotten to fit them in the first place, yes? Im not trying to be glib, but are investigators looking for the "O rings, what O rings?" answer, or do they go back and look for evidence of three parts pulled from inventory but not three associated O-rings? Or do they dig through the engine, find there are no O-rings and simply deduce the mechanic who did the recent work didn't install them?

Re: DC-10/MD-11 with only engine number 2?

Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:43 pm
by FlyHossD
IFlyVeryLittle wrote:
Im curious about the Eastern incident noted above: How would the NTSB determine a mechanic forgot to fit the O-rings? Surely, a simple question to said mechanic would render the obvious answer: "Of course I fitted them'' because surely if he knew he hadn't, he wouldn't have forgotten to fit them in the first place, yes? Im not trying to be glib, but are investigators looking for the "O rings, what O rings?" answer, or do they go back and look for evidence of three parts pulled from inventory but not three associated O-rings? Or do they dig through the engine, find there are no O-rings and simply deduce the mechanic who did the recent work didn't install them?


IIRC, the O-rings were found to NOT be installed. If that was the case, the finding is both simple and firm.

Re: DC-10/MD-11 with only engine number 2?

Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:47 pm
by unimproved
All depends on the weight. OEW is about the same as A332 while thrust is slightly less.

IFlyVeryLittle wrote:
Im curious about the Eastern incident noted above: How would the NTSB determine a mechanic forgot to fit the O-rings? Surely, a simple question to said mechanic would render the obvious answer: "Of course I fitted them'' because surely if he knew he hadn't, he wouldn't have forgotten to fit them in the first place, yes? Im not trying to be glib, but are investigators looking for the "O rings, what O rings?" answer, or do they go back and look for evidence of three parts pulled from inventory but not three associated O-rings? Or do they dig through the engine, find there are no O-rings and simply deduce the mechanic who did the recent work didn't install them?


All work is logged in maintenance records, so they looked at the last mechanic to install that part.

Re: DC-10/MD-11 with only engine number 2?

Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:17 pm
by fr8mech
IFlyVeryLittle wrote:
Im curious about the Eastern incident noted above: How would the NTSB determine a mechanic forgot to fit the O-rings? Surely, a simple question to said mechanic would render the obvious answer: "Of course I fitted them'' because surely if he knew he hadn't, he wouldn't have forgotten to fit them in the first place, yes? Im not trying to be glib, but are investigators looking for the "O rings, what O rings?" answer, or do they go back and look for evidence of three parts pulled from inventory but not three associated O-rings? Or do they dig through the engine, find there are no O-rings and simply deduce the mechanic who did the recent work didn't install them?


An aside from the topic question, but an important aside.

This is an event that just about every mechanic in the industry at the time, and later, heard about and, hopefully, learned from.

The chip detector check was a time controlled item, and as I recall, at reduced intervals because the RB211 installed on the L1011 was junk...at least early on.

The task was routine and done “all the time”. The mechanics would normally grab the new chip detectors from the foreman’s office. Those chip detectors would be ready to go with o-rings installed. On this particular night, there weren’t any in the office, so the detectors were pulled from stock. None of the mechanics involved noticed that the detectors did not have o-rings installed.

The rest is history.

If you can find the NTSB report, it is instructive.

Re: DC-10/MD-11 with only engine number 2?

Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:50 am
by slinker
Thanks for the replies!