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Zhinka
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Emergency oxygen cylinders European airlines

Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:14 am

Does anyone know whether all European airlines carry emergency oxygen on board in case of someone needing it on a flight? I understand anyone Who knows they need it should prearrange, I am talking heart attack sort of emergency. Will it be provided in that case?
 
dreamliner8910
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Re: Emergency oxygen cylinders European airlines

Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:04 am

Yes, it is carried on board for emergency medical use
 
VSMUT
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Re: Emergency oxygen cylinders European airlines

Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:10 am

It is carried onboard all pressurised aircraft as a required item, at least as emergency oxygen supply for the flight attendants. That said, they may be reluctant to provide it if it isn't a dire emergency. If the aircraft isn't stocked with an extra bottle, it could mean the aircraft can't be dispatched for the next flight, so if you really expect to need one, arrange something with the airline beforehand.
 
Tristarsteve
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Re: Emergency oxygen cylinders European airlines

Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:55 am

Every flight attendant needs a serviceable emergency oxygen bottle on departure. But it is very common that passengers need oxygen in flight. So on our A320 we carry 5 bottles for the cabin crew , plus 3 similar bottles as spare, plus a separate large portable bottle to supply passenger needs.
When I worked on the line, I reckon about one aircraft in 10 arrived with used oxygen bottles. We never changed the bottles, because it was a nightmare to ship the bottles around as cargo (dangerous goods). Really really difficult for a small outstation to arrange.. But we carried spare masks. If the bottles were more than 3/4 full, then we changed the mask and the bottle was serviceable.
A passenger that knew they needed oxygen could book (and pay for) the use of the large bottle in advance. They were not allowed to carry their own oxygen on board. (dangerous goods).
It worked well and very rarely did we have a problem.
 
aerotech777
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Re: Emergency oxygen cylinders European airlines

Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:25 pm

When I worked on the line, I reckon about one aircraft in 10 arrived with used oxygen bottles. We never changed the bottles, because it was a nightmare to ship the bottles around as cargo (dangerous goods). Really really difficult for a small outstation to arrange.. But we carried spare masks. If the bottles were more than 3/4 full, then we changed the mask and the bottle was serviceable.
A passenger that knew they needed oxygen could book (and pay for) the use of the large bottle in advance. They were not allowed to carry their own oxygen on board. (dangerous goods).
It worked well and very rarely did we have a problem.


I understand that passengers are not allowed to bring with them portable oxygen bottles or in the cargo for safety reasons.
a) What I don't understand is why an airline can't ship in cargo empty/half full or even full oxygen cylinders?
Crew oxygen cylinder (in the E/E bay), or passenger oxygen cylinders in the cargo for certain airplanes (short/medium haul in high altitude airports or long haul planes flying high mountains area), or emergency portable oxygen bottles in the cabin can also be dangerous. Quantas (in air) and Egyptair (ground) explosion are examples.

I know that when someone works on oxygen system, he/she have to take some precautions (clean tools...etc).
b) Are aircraft manufacturers (Boeing, Airbus..etc) installing oxygen bottles inside the assembly line or outside? what about airlines?

Feedback appreciated.
 
Tristarsteve
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Re: Emergency oxygen cylinders European airlines

Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:50 pm

You can ship oxygen bottles as cargo. The problem arises in that the shipper has to complete a dangerous goods declaration personally. To do this I must go on a course and pass exams and keep current and I ship one bottle a year. It is cheaper to throw the bottle away!!!
I cannot give the bottle to a cargo agent. He is not allowed to complete the paperwork, as the shipper, I must do it myself.
We get round this when we have to by shipping dangerous goods by road.
At main base, the man in the stores is the shipper and can fill in the papers and it works well.
 
Dalmd88
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Re: Emergency oxygen cylinders European airlines

Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:47 pm

At Delta for most of the larger line stations we had a bottle filling station. I had to be trained to fill the bottles. Just a short 45 min computer course. We could fill the flight deck crew bottle or the walk arounds for the cabin. The big supply bottles were source locally and we never had to ship anything unless the bottle was going out of hydrostatic test date. Then it could be shipped empty. Stock room had charged spares to replace a out of date one. Those where shipped in by truck.
 
Okie
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Re: Emergency oxygen cylinders European airlines

Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:52 pm

The portable oxygen concentrators seem to be relatively prevalent these days.
I see many people with them among my travels but have not seen one on an aircraft.
I know the manufacturers claim them to be airline acceptable but I have not seen nor heard of anyone using one on a commercial airline.

What is the airline's policy on those?

Okie
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: Emergency oxygen cylinders European airlines

Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:53 am

aerotech777 wrote:
When I worked on the line, I reckon about one aircraft in 10 arrived with used oxygen bottles. We never changed the bottles, because it was a nightmare to ship the bottles around as cargo (dangerous goods). Really really difficult for a small outstation to arrange.. But we carried spare masks. If the bottles were more than 3/4 full, then we changed the mask and the bottle was serviceable.
A passenger that knew they needed oxygen could book (and pay for) the use of the large bottle in advance. They were not allowed to carry their own oxygen on board. (dangerous goods).
It worked well and very rarely did we have a problem.


I understand that passengers are not allowed to bring with them portable oxygen bottles or in the cargo for safety reasons.
a) What I don't understand is why an airline can't ship in cargo empty/half full or even full oxygen cylinders?
Crew oxygen cylinder (in the E/E bay), or passenger oxygen cylinders in the cargo for certain airplanes (short/medium haul in high altitude airports or long haul planes flying high mountains area), or emergency portable oxygen bottles in the cabin can also be dangerous. Quantas (in air) and Egyptair (ground) explosion are examples.

I know that when someone works on oxygen system, he/she have to take some precautions (clean tools...etc).
b) Are aircraft manufacturers (Boeing, Airbus..etc) installing oxygen bottles inside the assembly line or outside? what about airlines?

Feedback appreciated.


b) Oxygen cylinders for cockpit oxygen are routinely changed out on the line. Airlines do this all the time. Obviously with the appropriate precautions.

OEMs presumably install cylinders before the first flight. They're a required piece of kit.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
VSMUT
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Re: Emergency oxygen cylinders European airlines

Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:15 am

Okie wrote:
The portable oxygen concentrators seem to be relatively prevalent these days.
I see many people with them among my travels but have not seen one on an aircraft.
I know the manufacturers claim them to be airline acceptable but I have not seen nor heard of anyone using one on a commercial airline.

What is the airline's policy on those?

Okie


Isn't allowed where I work. It's a simple matter of us being unable to verify if the equipment has been properly maintained, or if it is a fake certification. Same reason why we can't use phones on planes, the staff can't reasonably be expected to know everything about all devices.
 
shamrock137
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Re: Emergency oxygen cylinders European airlines

Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:52 pm

Okie wrote:
The portable oxygen concentrators seem to be relatively prevalent these days.
I see many people with them among my travels but have not seen one on an aircraft.
I know the manufacturers claim them to be airline acceptable but I have not seen nor heard of anyone using one on a commercial airline.

What is the airline's policy on those?

Okie


In the US, they're widely used on aircraft. Most airlines I know don't allow passengers to bring oxygen bottles, and instead ask them to use POC's. Generally the requirements are that they are labeled with a special "flight approved" placard and then the checkin agent would verify this against a list of approved devices provided by the FAA. Additionally, the device would have to have adequate battery to complete the flight, and usually show they have a backup battery or a full charge charge in the event of a delay.

VSMUT wrote:
Isn't allowed where I work. It's a simple matter of us being unable to verify if the equipment has been properly maintained, or if it is a fake certification. Same reason why we can't use phones on planes, the staff can't reasonably be expected to know everything about all devices.


Interesting! Policies I have seen are the opposite. Bottles are not allowed as its considered high risk, but with similar arguments. Don't know how well the bottle and regulator have been maintained, they can leak, may be damaged if they tip over or are dropped, and may become a projectile the event of severe turbulence or a decompression. The solution here is that a POC must be on an approved list where the staff can verify the make and model number.
Time to spare? Go by air!
 
aerotech777
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Re: Emergency oxygen cylinders European airlines

Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:36 pm

I will clarify my second question because it seems I was not clear. I was wondering if oxygen bottles are installed inside hangar: assembly line for aircraft manufacturers or maintenance hangar for airlines. For example if aircraft manufacturers install the oxygen bottles outside the assembly for safety reason: lot of employees inside the assembly line in addition to other planes and equipment...etc. I was also wondering if a mechanic can install oxygen bottles inside hangar for airlines. Or even if it is possible to let aircraft inside the hangar for several days for maintenance with oxygen bottles installed? may be removing the oxygen bottles, or may be empty the oxygen bottle by sucking oxygen through the oxygen filling port if the aircraft is fitted with it (I don't know if it is possible)?

At Delta for most of the larger line stations we had a bottle filling station. I had to be trained to fill the bottles. Just a short 45 min computer course. We could fill the flight deck crew bottle or the walk arounds for the cabin. The big supply bottles were source locally and we never had to ship anything unless the bottle was going out of hydrostatic test date. Then it could be shipped empty. Stock room had charged spares to replace a out of date one. Those where shipped in by truck.


Dalmd88, when you said "you can fill the flight deck crew bottle", you meant to have to remove the oxy bottle from the aircraft then fill it then install it. So I assume you didn't mean filling the oxy bottle through the filling port on the fuselage. To my knowledge and I can be wrong few airlines had the oxygen filling port on the fuselage as an option.
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: Emergency oxygen cylinders European airlines

Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:06 pm

AFAIK oxygen bottles are swapped out on the line. No need for a hangar.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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SAAFNAV
Posts: 605
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Re: Emergency oxygen cylinders European airlines

Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:29 am

aerotech777 wrote:
Dalmd88, when you said "you can fill the flight deck crew bottle", you meant to have to remove the oxy bottle from the aircraft then fill it then install it. So I assume you didn't mean filling the oxy bottle through the filling port on the fuselage. To my knowledge and I can be wrong few airlines had the oxygen filling port on the fuselage as an option.


I've never seen a need to take the aircraft out of the hangar for refilling.
In the Air Force, we'd pre-breathe O2 before HAHO/HALO sorties. Sitting on the ground sucking oxygen for 40 minutes with the oxygen cart attached to the aircraft's filling port, in order to top it off. Off course, all electrics were off, but not that big of a deal.

Whilst pure oxygen can be a hazard, the risk is really much smaller than other apron activities.
CFI/Gr. III, L-382 Loadmaster, ex C-130B Navigator
 
Tristarsteve
Posts: 3667
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:04 pm

Re: Emergency oxygen cylinders European airlines

Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:39 pm

The British Airways B777 and B744 both have gaseous oxygen bottles in the fwd freight hold sidewalls and ceiling for passenger use. Lots of them. At LHR and LGW we fill up these bottles, and the flight deck bottles, from oxygen carts that are towed around the ramp.
Filling these bottles on the ramp is not allowed in the rest of Europe, they have to be removed from the aircraft for refilling.

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