Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
AC853
Topic Author
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:14 pm

Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:58 am

I was just wondering why all of Air Canada’s A220s are currently flying below 30,000 ft on FR24?
 
Weatherwatcher1
Posts: 563
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:14 pm

Re: Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:11 am

There is an Emergency Airworthiness Directive Issued by Transport Canada due to several inflight shutdowns.

Several occurrences of engine in-flight shutdowns (IFSDs) were reported on Airbus Canada Limited Partnership BD-500 family aeroplanes. Investigations are ongoing to determine the root cause. Preliminary investigation results indicate high altitude climbs at higher thrust settings for engines with certain thrust ratings may be a contributor. This condition, if not corrected, could lead to an uncontained failure of the engine and damage to the aeroplane.

To address this potentially unsafe condition, this AD introduces a new Aircraft Flight Manual (AFM) limitation and normal procedure to limit the engine N1 setting to 94% while above 29000 feet.
This AD is considered an interim action and further AD action may follow.


https://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur/2/ ... 9-37-E.PDF
 
User avatar
AC853
Topic Author
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:14 pm

Re: Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:42 am

Thank you. I had heard of some engine issues but I did not know about the directive.
 
berari
Posts: 917
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:47 pm

Re: Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:08 am

What does it mean to the flights? How is performance or flight time affected, if any?
 
jghealey
Posts: 242
Joined: Fri May 11, 2018 5:46 pm

Re: Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:54 am

It's the same in Europe, if I remember rightly the high thrust version of the engine is subject to this restriction which is why Swiss always flies their A220s at below 30,000ft (as they have the high thrust option) whereas airBaltic routinely flies above it as they apparently don't. Clearly AC also has the high thrust option. Having said that I did think that there had been a software update to fix it but clearly not quite yet.

I have no idea about AC but for Swiss the aircraft routing and flight time is mostly unchanged as far as I'm aware. Again I'm totally clueless about how this affects efficiency though.
 
Jomar777
Posts: 571
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:45 am

Re: Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:34 am

It seems to me that the A220 is not that a perfect flawless aircraft as widely advertised. Loads of tech and glitches.

I hope they solve this sooner rather than later...
 
musapapaya
Posts: 1027
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:02 am

Re: Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:43 am

My last trip on one of the LX's A220 was in September 2019, and the altitude restrictions were in place already. Clearly, flying it especially when the loads are pretty light at low altitude is not ideal from a fuel efficiency point of view, but I do not have any data to back it up. They usually fly at 28,000 or 29,000 feet from what I remember.
 
User avatar
fanoftristars
Posts: 1669
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 9:03 am

Re: Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:16 pm

I do find it interesting that Delta is routinely at FL40 and FL41 with the A220. Nice ride up there. My flight from DFW-SLC last night stayed at 40,000ft the entire cruise.
"FLY DELTA JETS"
 
User avatar
armagnac2010
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:45 am

Re: Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:05 pm

The C Series / A220 is a very good airplane. Top notch airframe, modern powerplant architecture.

The PW GTF series engine has however some issues. Remarkably, the geared stage system, the biggest techncological challenge in the large turbofan area for the last 20 years, works rather well. The rest of the turbomachinery, however, is not up to the standard. It is steadily improving, but not as fast as it should.

One could note the PW GTF engine shares a common point with the 737 Max - FAA oversight (or rather, lack of oversight).
 
User avatar
Gonzalo
Posts: 1855
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:43 am

Re: Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:05 pm

"Several occurrences of engine in-flight shutdowns (IFSDs) were reported on Airbus Canada Limited Partnership BD-500 family aeroplanes." So, we have a new design flying with a potential loss of power on its engines, and the safety measure adopted in this case is a different flight level...nice! This airframes should be grounded in the same way the 737MAX were grounded before, the potential of a loss of life is too big and the risk completely avoidable.
Gear Up!!: DC-3 / EMB-110 / FH-227 / A318-19-20-21 / B732 / B763 / B789 / B788 / A343 / ATR72-600
 
User avatar
armagnac2010
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:45 am

Re: Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:23 pm

Per design, an IFSD is a minor event. It is nevertheless undesirable due to associated operationnal consequences (drift down, diversion) hence the controlling measures implemented to control it, restricting the flight enveloppe to minimise the risk of occurence.

MCAS untimely activation is demonstrated catastrophic through 2 fatal accidents.

We are not talking about the same thing.
 
ExMilitaryEng
Posts: 642
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 7:12 pm

Re: Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:34 pm

Gonzalo wrote:
... This airframes should be grounded in the same way the 737MAX were grounded before, the potential of a loss of life is too big and the risk completely avoidable.

Hahaha, I guess you work for Embraer!

This problem concerns only the high thrust version of the engines (30% of the fleet??). Those specific planes are limited to 30000ft until the software patch is loaded.

No A220s experienced an IFSD since.
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 3015
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

Re: Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:55 pm

Jomar777 wrote:
It seems to me that the A220 is not that a perfect flawless aircraft as widely advertised. Loads of tech and glitches.

I hope they solve this sooner rather than later...


All new technology has growing pains. These new geared engines are a huge leap. Give it time.

When the A320 first flew 30 odd years ago, maintenance used to nickname it the A360. As in it would leave the gate, need a computer reset, come back to the gate. Reset and leave.

They nicknamed the E190 the E180. It left the gate and needed a computer reset. Back to the gate and stayed.

All commercial airliners have these issues on service entry.

One thing I can assure you though is that Swiss, Delta and Air Baltic are extremely pleased with their A220s.

Gonzalo wrote:
"Several occurrences of engine in-flight shutdowns (IFSDs) were reported on Airbus Canada Limited Partnership BD-500 family aeroplanes." So, we have a new design flying with a potential loss of power on its engines, and the safety measure adopted in this case is a different flight level...nice! This airframes should be grounded in the same way the 737MAX were grounded before, the potential of a loss of life is too big and the risk completely avoidable.


It's an engine software issue. Relax.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
jwjsamster
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:12 am

Re: Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:55 pm

Jomar777 wrote:
It seems to me that the A220 is not that a perfect flawless aircraft as widely advertised. Loads of tech and glitches.

I hope they solve this sooner rather than later...


I think it has to do with all of the new tech in the A220, it is a brand new design so it's not surprising.

I'm just glad that this has been flagged before they start falling out of the sky.
 
Jetport
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:23 pm

Re: Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:57 pm

Jomar777 wrote:
It seems to me that the A220 is not that a perfect flawless aircraft as widely advertised. Loads of tech and glitches.

I hope they solve this sooner rather than later...


Blasphemy! :roll: According to ANET consensus, the A220 is the best commercial aircraft ever built, which could end up actually being true in 4 or 5 years. But as of July 2020, the A220 has been a disaster. It was years late, billions over budget, forced its developer out of the commercial aircraft business and is still a hanger queen with technical glitches years after EIS. I really hope the A220 turns out well in the future, but as of today the program is a failure. :stirthepot:

The 787 started poorly but became a huge success, so there is precedent for the A220 to succeed in the long term.
 
marcelh
Posts: 1095
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:40 pm

Jomar777 wrote:
It seems to me that the A220 is not that a perfect flawless aircraft as widely advertised. Loads of tech and glitches.

I hope they solve this sooner rather than later...

No new aircraft goes without techs and glitches. And it’s widely known PW has some “issues” with their newborns... And on a positive side: this plane doesn’t try to kill people......
 
airnorth
Posts: 462
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:30 am

Re: Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:06 pm

Jetport wrote:
Jomar777 wrote:
It seems to me that the A220 is not that a perfect flawless aircraft as widely advertised. Loads of tech and glitches.

I hope they solve this sooner rather than later...


Blasphemy! :roll: According to ANET consensus, the A220 is the best commercial aircraft ever built, which could end up actually being true in 4 or 5 years. But as of July 2020, the A220 has been a disaster. It was years late, billions over budget, forced its developer out of the commercial aircraft business and is still a hanger queen with technical glitches years after EIS. I really hope the A220 turns out well in the future, but as of today the program is a failure. :stirthepot:

The 787 started poorly but became a huge success, so there is precedent for the A220 to succeed in the long term.


I'm not sure I agree with all of your assertions, but maybe you do have a source to show all of the hanger queen time? I was under the general impression that Delta, Swiss and Baltic were using their fleet pretty heavily, as is Air Canada, but maybe I am wrong.
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 21896
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

Re: Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:13 pm

armagnac2010 wrote:
The PW GTF series engine has however some issues. Remarkably, the geared stage system, the biggest techncological challenge in the large turbofan area for the last 20 years, works rather well. The rest of the turbomachinery, however, is not up to the standard. It is steadily improving, but not as fast as it should.


I've made this same observation. It's clear that PW decided that they absolutely must not foul up the gearbox. And they didn't. It works beautifully.

And then PW, one of the most experienced gas turbine manufacturers in the world, the firm that powered so many of the airplanes that built the entire air transport system...forgot how to build turbines. Seals, shafts, casings... It's just embarrassing.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
Antarius
Posts: 2736
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:45 pm

Gonzalo wrote:
"Several occurrences of engine in-flight shutdowns (IFSDs) were reported on Airbus Canada Limited Partnership BD-500 family aeroplanes." So, we have a new design flying with a potential loss of power on its engines, and the safety measure adopted in this case is a different flight level...nice! This airframes should be grounded in the same way the 737MAX were grounded before, the potential of a loss of life is too big and the risk completely avoidable.


An IFSD is a perfectly recoverable incident, unlike the MAX issue. if the issue was that occasionally and engine fell off, then it would be a different story.

The likelihood of dual IFSD is so so so small that grounding the fleet is unnecessary. Especially with FL30 mitigation in place.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
Antarius
Posts: 2736
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:49 pm

airnorth wrote:
Jetport wrote:
Jomar777 wrote:
It seems to me that the A220 is not that a perfect flawless aircraft as widely advertised. Loads of tech and glitches.

I hope they solve this sooner rather than later...


Blasphemy! :roll: According to ANET consensus, the A220 is the best commercial aircraft ever built, which could end up actually being true in 4 or 5 years. But as of July 2020, the A220 has been a disaster. It was years late, billions over budget, forced its developer out of the commercial aircraft business and is still a hanger queen with technical glitches years after EIS. I really hope the A220 turns out well in the future, but as of today the program is a failure. :stirthepot:

The 787 started poorly but became a huge success, so there is precedent for the A220 to succeed in the long term.


I'm not sure I agree with all of your assertions, but maybe you do have a source to show all of the hanger queen time? I was under the general impression that Delta, Swiss and Baltic were using their fleet pretty heavily, as is Air Canada, but maybe I am wrong.


From what I can tell, the dispatch reliability is 99+% up from 98.5% last year (https://corporate.southpacificislands.t ... spotlight/)

Regardless, I can't find any data that indicates hangar queen. Teething problems, sure, but every aircraft has those.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 20592
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:55 pm

DocLightning wrote:
armagnac2010 wrote:
The PW GTF series engine has however some issues. Remarkably, the geared stage system, the biggest techncological challenge in the large turbofan area for the last 20 years, works rather well. The rest of the turbomachinery, however, is not up to the standard. It is steadily improving, but not as fast as it should.


I've made this same observation. It's clear that PW decided that they absolutely must not foul up the gearbox. And they didn't. It works beautifully.

And then PW, one of the most experienced gas turbine manufacturers in the world, the firm that powered so many of the airplanes that built the entire air transport system...forgot how to build turbines. Seals, shafts, casings... It's just embarrassing.

It was too long since Pratt developed an engine. They also forgot optimizing combustor life during a climb. Something I worked on decades ago for Pratt.

But overall, the engines are an outstanding concept. Pratt will get it right and the A220 will sell.

CFM would not do a custom engine for Bombardier as that risked A320 sales and the 737 monopoly. RR didn't like the business case, other than another BR700 derivative, which wouldn't be competitive.

The engines are requiring more debugging time than is acceptable. By the time JetBlue accepts their first engines, they will be debugged.

The A220s are being flown a lot more than other types, that is an indicator of the overall desirability. It will just take time to get all the seals replaced. I lost track of the software fix.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
777Mech
Posts: 1018
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:10 pm

Jomar777 wrote:
It seems to me that the A220 is not that a perfect flawless aircraft as widely advertised. Loads of tech and glitches.

I hope they solve this sooner rather than later...


Yeah, no one on this board is saying it's perfect. No airplane is perfect.
 
Etheereal
Posts: 374
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:44 am

Re: Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:16 pm

armagnac2010 wrote:
Per design, an IFSD is a minor event. It is nevertheless undesirable due to associated operationnal consequences (drift down, diversion) hence the controlling measures implemented to control it, restricting the flight enveloppe to minimise the risk of occurence.

MCAS untimely activation is demonstrated catastrophic through 2 fatal accidents.

We are not talking about the same thing.


An untimely IFSD can be also potentially catastrophic.

Also the MCAS activation could be avoided (recoverable), as the previous crew of Lion Air demostrated.

But as this is not a Max8 thread, i'll stop here, and just say I hope the A220 problems can be fixed soon.
 
User avatar
armagnac2010
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:45 am

Re: Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:25 pm

An untimely IFSD can be also potentially catastrophic.


No it's should not. The airworthiness design (Part 25) and the operationnal (Part 121) rules are written to prevent such outcome.

Some engine failure modes such as uncontained disk failure can be catastrophic, but this is not involved here.
 
rampbro
Posts: 546
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:00 am

Re: Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:26 pm

Jetport wrote:
forced its developer out of the commercial aircraft business


The CSeries program didn't do this, poor management decisions through the medium term at BBD led to a severely weakened stock price and massive borrowing costs. The Cseries burned a hole in a pocket that should have been able to refill it, but failed to do so. At the critical point where the tide was turning, Boeing made a frivolous complaint about dumping - one which has since been rejected (and that rejection not appealed).
Honestly if you think the Cseries is the dog which closed BBD commercial airplanes, I don't think you know enough about that business.
 
pranav7478
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:22 pm

Re: Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:38 pm

jghealey wrote:
It's the same in Europe, if I remember rightly the high thrust version of the engine is subject to this restriction which is why Swiss always flies their A220s at below 30,000ft (as they have the high thrust option) whereas airBaltic routinely flies above it as they apparently don't. Clearly AC also has the high thrust option. Having said that I did think that there had been a software update to fix it but clearly not quite yet.

I have no idea about AC but for Swiss the aircraft routing and flight time is mostly unchanged as far as I'm aware. Again I'm totally clueless about how this affects efficiency though.

is there any benefit for an airline to choose the higher thrust option engine? like does it affect efficiency or range or speed? or is it for quicker take offs and climbing?
i did read about a software update i think was supposed to be done by this april. however im not sure if it was completed because of the pandemic.
Planes I have flown on: CRJ-900, E175, E190, A319, A320, A321, A330-200, 717, 737-700, 737-800, 747-400, 747-8I, 757-200, 767-300, 777-200, 777-300(ER), 787-8, 787-9
Airlines I have flown on: AI, AS, BA, DL, 6E, 9W, B6, KE, SQ, WN, UA, US, VA
 
jwjsamster
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:12 am

Re: Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:42 pm

rampbro wrote:
Jetport wrote:
forced its developer out of the commercial aircraft business


The CSeries program didn't do this, poor management decisions through the medium term at BBD led to a severely weakened stock price and massive borrowing costs. The Cseries burned a hole in a pocket that should have been able to refill it, but failed to do so. At the critical point where the tide was turning, Boeing made a frivolous complaint about dumping - one which has since been rejected (and that rejection not appealed).
Honestly if you think the Cseries is the dog which closed BBD commercial airplanes, I don't think you know enough about that business.


Boeing was a huge factor in this but thankfully karma caught up to them, but I do agree that Bombardier's management was a huge factor in how things ended up and ultimately it is now a shell of what it once was with the sale of Transportation to Alstom and the sale fof the Q400 and CRJ lines.
 
User avatar
FLALEFTY
Posts: 816
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:33 am

Re: Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:25 pm

After reading the AD it appears that it is only applicable to 3 different variants of the engine: PW1521G (21.97K lbf), PW1524G (23.3K lbf) & PW1524G-3 (24.4K lbf). Delta operates A221's only at this time and they are equipped with PW1519G (19.775K lbf) engines, which are not a covered by the AD. This is the reason Delta's A221's can operate up to FL40. However, it is delaying production and delivery of Delta's A223's at Airbus' Mobile FAL since the A223 has the more powerful engine variants.

https://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur/2/ ... 9-37-E.PDF
 
jghealey
Posts: 242
Joined: Fri May 11, 2018 5:46 pm

Re: Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:27 pm

pranav7478 wrote:
jghealey wrote:
It's the same in Europe, if I remember rightly the high thrust version of the engine is subject to this restriction which is why Swiss always flies their A220s at below 30,000ft (as they have the high thrust option) whereas airBaltic routinely flies above it as they apparently don't. Clearly AC also has the high thrust option. Having said that I did think that there had been a software update to fix it but clearly not quite yet.

I have no idea about AC but for Swiss the aircraft routing and flight time is mostly unchanged as far as I'm aware. Again I'm totally clueless about how this affects efficiency though.

is there any benefit for an airline to choose the higher thrust option engine? like does it affect efficiency or range or speed? or is it for quicker take offs and climbing?
i did read about a software update i think was supposed to be done by this april. however im not sure if it was completed because of the pandemic.

I think it's because Swiss generally operates very short flights on the A220 so they want quicker takeoffs, eg all 3 of the engine failures were on GVA-LHR which is just 1 hour flight time. Airbaltic and Delta use theirs for longer flgihts hence no need for the added thrust I think.

Quite possible also that AC chose this option for use in harsh weather conditions.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 20592
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:30 am

pranav7478 wrote:
jghealey wrote:
It's the same in Europe, if I remember rightly the high thrust version of the engine is subject to this restriction which is why Swiss always flies their A220s at below 30,000ft (as they have the high thrust option) whereas airBaltic routinely flies above it as they apparently don't. Clearly AC also has the high thrust option. Having said that I did think that there had been a software update to fix it but clearly not quite yet.

I have no idea about AC but for Swiss the aircraft routing and flight time is mostly unchanged as far as I'm aware. Again I'm totally clueless about how this affects efficiency though.

is there any benefit for an airline to choose the higher thrust option engine? like does it affect efficiency or range or speed? or is it for quicker take offs and climbing?
i did read about a software update i think was supposed to be done by this april. however im not sure if it was completed because of the pandemic.

Higher thrust provides shorter takeoff lengths and saves fuel on missions. It is most efficient to take off quickly and climb into thinner air quickly. It also puts the plane above weather earlier, improving customer satisfaction. It also saves a few minutes of flight time.

I lost track of the software update timeline.

Lightsaber

BTW, GE tried to break the engineering compromise between fast climb with variable cooling for the turbine inlet guide vane. I say tried as the cruise cooling appears to be too low.

Late edit. Not all is bad. AirBaltic had a 99.85% dispatch reliability:

https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/airbalt ... on%20order.
Winter is coming.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 5092
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:27 am

Jomar777 wrote:
It seems to me that the A220 is not that a perfect flawless aircraft as widely advertised. Loads of tech and glitches.

I hope they solve this sooner rather than later...

the A220 is not true Airbus and subject to the same teething pains as any other airplane. Airbus will have to engineer their way out of them.
 
Whiteguy
Posts: 1572
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:11 am

Re: Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:40 am

fanoftristars wrote:
I do find it interesting that Delta is routinely at FL40 and FL41 with the A220. Nice ride up there. My flight from DFW-SLC last night stayed at 40,000ft the entire cruise.


Different engines on the 100 vs the 300....the 100s are not part of the AD.
 
Pendennis
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:36 pm

Re: Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:20 pm

Whiteguy wrote:
fanoftristars wrote:
I do find it interesting that Delta is routinely at FL40 and FL41 with the A220. Nice ride up there. My flight from DFW-SLC last night stayed at 40,000ft the entire cruise.


Different engines on the 100 vs the 300....the 100s are not part of the AD.


I believe Swiss uses the higher powered engines on the -100 for operations in and out of London City.
 
Whiteguy
Posts: 1572
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:11 am

Re: Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:37 pm

Pendennis wrote:
Whiteguy wrote:
fanoftristars wrote:
I do find it interesting that Delta is routinely at FL40 and FL41 with the A220. Nice ride up there. My flight from DFW-SLC last night stayed at 40,000ft the entire cruise.


Different engines on the 100 vs the 300....the 100s are not part of the AD.


I believe Swiss uses the higher powered engines on the -100 for operations in and out of London City.


Maybe, not sure. I was comment to the Delta specifically comment.
 
FlyingElvii
Posts: 995
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:43 pm

armagnac2010 wrote:
The C Series / A220 is a very good airplane. Top notch airframe, modern powerplant architecture.

The PW GTF series engine has however some issues. Remarkably, the geared stage system, the biggest techncological challenge in the large turbofan area for the last 20 years, works rather well. The rest of the turbomachinery, however, is not up to the standard. It is steadily improving, but not as fast as it should.

One could note the PW GTF engine shares a common point with the 737 Max - FAA oversight (or rather, lack of oversight).

High altitude, high thrust climb...
Perhaps an icing issue? We do know there are other engines that can get major icing issues under very specific conditions.
 
md11sdf
Posts: 105
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2006 10:11 am

Re: Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:56 am

Have you armchair pilots forgotten what a nightmare the first couple of years were for the Boeing 787? Once the (truly serious) bugs were worked out, it became a best seller...
LOUISVILLE KENTUCKY: Where your camera looks just like a stinger missile to the Airport Police!!
 
loggat
Posts: 437
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2000 11:34 am

Re: Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:34 am

FLALEFTY wrote:
After reading the AD it appears that it is only applicable to 3 different variants of the engine: PW1521G (21.97K lbf), PW1524G (23.3K lbf) & PW1524G-3 (24.4K lbf). Delta operates A221's only at this time and they are equipped with PW1519G (19.775K lbf) engines, which are not a covered by the AD. This is the reason Delta's A221's can operate up to FL40. However, it is delaying production and delivery of Delta's A223's at Airbus' Mobile FAL since the A223 has the more powerful engine variants.

https://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur/2/ ... 9-37-E.PDF


Delta's A221's are bought with PW1519G's and then flown to ATL on their delivery flights. During their entry in to service maintenance procedures, the engine software is changed to make them PW1521GA engines. This gives them up to 21k thrust for takeoff and up to 19k thrust for climb. (The PW1521G is 21k for both t/o and climb). They are still not affected by the AD though, as you said.
There are 3 types of people in this world, those that can count, and those that can't.
 
User avatar
CFM565A1
Posts: 438
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:19 pm

Re: Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:45 am

[*]
md11sdf wrote:
Have you armchair pilots forgotten what a nightmare the first couple of years were for the Boeing 787? Once the (truly serious) bugs were worked out, it became a best seller...


True and same for the Ejets
C172-M/N/P/R/S , PA-28-180, P2006T, PA-34-200T, B1900D, DH8A/C ERJ-145, CRJ-100/200, DH8D, CRJ-700/705/900, E-175/190, A319/320/321, 737-200/300/400/600/700/800/900ER/M8, MD-82/83, 757-200/300, 767-300, A330-300, 787-9, 777-300ER, F28-4000.
 
VV
Posts: 1912
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Mon Nov 02, 2020 4:12 pm

Can someone please remind me when the issue started?
Thank you.
 
yyztpa2
Posts: 132
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:30 pm

Re: Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:46 pm

dup
Last edited by yyztpa2 on Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
yyztpa2
Posts: 132
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:30 pm

Re: Why are Air Canada’s A220S flying below 30,000 ft?

Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:58 pm

Flights as of about Nov 24 no longer show as restricted to 29,000'.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: GSOtoIND, hongkongflyer, Starlionblue and 16 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos