Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
deltaffindfw
Topic Author
Posts: 1520
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 7:42 am

A220 - loud noise when lowering gear?

Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:50 pm

So, now that things are quieter here in DFW and DL has been flying a decent amount of A220s in, I have noticed some odd noises when planes are landing. I live between 17C and 17R about 5-6 miles north of DFW. It's an odd, loud, somewhat high pitched noise as the plane passes over the house. When I look at Flightradar app - it always shows a DL A220! I don't hear the same extremely strange noise with any other plane passing over.

Just curious if anyone knows exactly what is causing that sound.
 
JohanTally
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:44 am

Re: A220 - loud noise when lowering gear?

Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:11 pm

Not sure about the gear noise but the GTF on the A220 is known to make strange howling sounds at different thrust levels.

https://youtu.be/XkFMuIheC3g
 
DFW17L
Posts: 306
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 2:53 am

Re: A220 - loud noise when lowering gear?

Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:19 pm

I’m just past the 17L outer marker. I only hear the gtf whale song. Sometimes it’s really creepy.
 
amcnd
Posts: 223
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:19 am

Re: A220 - loud noise when lowering gear?

Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:35 pm

Not as bad as the CRJ 200. Bombardier loves there Hydraulic opened up locks.l....
 
Deltabravo1123
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:32 am

Re: A220 - loud noise when lowering gear?

Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:36 pm

There was a thread maybe a year ago about the same sound over LCY, specifically with A220s. I could not tell you why or what causes it, but the noise occurs at low thrust levels when the aircraft is spooling up or close to landing.

Edit: Found the thread! Below is the link if you'd like to read.

viewtopic.php?t=1407879
 
User avatar
shamrock350
Posts: 5486
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:38 am

Re: A220 - loud noise when lowering gear?

Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:43 pm

It probably is the 'whale song' you can hear. It happens most commonly as the engines spool up for take off but has also been heard when the aircraft is on approach.

It caused a stir around Zurich after Swiss starting taking delivery of their frames.

https://www.gatechecked.com/zurich-resi ... s-a220-689

Shamrock350
 
Bhoy
Posts: 568
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:50 pm

Re: A220 - loud noise when lowering gear?

Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:46 pm

I had my first flight on an A220 two weeks ago (LX AMS-ZRH), it’s a comfortable ride, but certainly makes the occasional weird noise (particularly noticeable inside on spooling up).
 
SEU
Posts: 299
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:21 pm

Re: A220 - loud noise when lowering gear?

Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:42 am

I love the spooling up noise of the A220s, it gives them character, you always know if one is knocking about if you hear that sound.
 
deltaffindfw
Topic Author
Posts: 1520
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 7:42 am

Re: A220 - loud noise when lowering gear?

Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:03 am

Thanks everyone!
 
Jomar777
Posts: 584
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:45 am

Re: A220 - loud noise when lowering gear?

Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:34 am

It might sound creepy but there was in the past another aircraft with a very peculiar (and frightening) sound... the JU-87. Another one, less frightening but also quite peculiar, was the Concorde which would tear through double gazed windows (I lived on their flight path not far from LHR by the Thames) - it would stop the town I lived with everyone looking upwards. If you were inside your home/flat, there was no stopping to the noise.

What I mean is that, the noise might be there for all to hear on the A220 but, as shown here, it might even attract and give character to the aircraft. That way to identify it when it passes by.

I am sure that, if it was an issue, it would have been dealt with quite a while ago. For now, I see it as a way to spot when it is coming and get a camera/binocular ready...
 
kimimm19
Posts: 435
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:34 pm

Re: A220 - loud noise when lowering gear?

Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:55 am

There are a few distinct noises to the A220.

The first one is as people are saying on spool up which I've heard be called the 'Vulcan howl'.

The second is on approach sometimes which has a kind of whaling sound which I believe is either the RAM (I think it's called) turbine or the hydraulic system.
 
bomber996
Posts: 533
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:21 am

Re: A220 - loud noise when lowering gear?

Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:00 pm

I was at Lake Harriet near MSP the other day (directly under the approach path) and heard the same howl. The aircraft is definitely quieter than the CRJ-900's or B737-900's, but that howl definitely took me by surprise. Very cool though.

Peace :box:
"We've recently upped our standards, so up yours." - Federal Aviation Administration
 
basspaul
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:18 pm

Re: A220 - loud noise when lowering gear?

Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:53 pm

It was a question that came up during the design of the Cseries, would the aerodynamic noises during descent be louder than the engine noise? It seems this is the case, between the landing gear, the doors, wheel wells, and flaps/slats, lots of things to generate noise in an airstream. We're probably so accustomed to engine noise with planes that we've never really heard (or thought about) all the other normal noises a plane makes flying.
 
docmtl
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:04 pm

Re: A220 - loud noise when lowering gear?

Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:49 pm

BTW, does the E-190/195 E2 series make the same noise as the A-220 ?

They share the same engine structure, and they face the same technical hurdles (see post about thrust and ceiling limitations for both aircraft below).

https://www.flightglobal.com/safety/ope ... 04.article

docmtl
 
User avatar
DLHAM
Posts: 600
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:10 am

Re: A220 - loud noise when lowering gear?

Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:59 pm

kimimm19 wrote:
There are a few distinct noises to the A220.

The first one is as people are saying on spool up which I've heard be called the 'Vulcan howl'.

The second is on approach sometimes which has a kind of whaling sound which I believe is either the RAM (I think it's called) turbine or the hydraulic system.


Would love to see a video where this sound is noticeable. I live very close to Hamburg Airport, but far from approach paths.
My Instagram Account: Instagram
 
MohawkWeekend
Posts: 478
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:06 pm

Re: A220 - loud noise when lowering gear?

Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:14 pm

Would love to hear it in CLE. I wonder if it's like the howl BAC 1-11's made when they were descending in the pattern. No other jet had as many strange sounds as the 1-11. Takeoff sounded like a F-4 in afterburner.
    300 319 320 321 707 717 720 727 72S 737 73S 734 735 73G 738 739 747 757 762 ARJ B11 C212 CRJ CR2 CR7 CR9 CV5 D8S DC9 D9S D94 D95 D10 DH8 DTO EMB EM2 E135 E145 E190 FH7 F28 F100 FTRIMTR HRN L10 L15 M80 M90 SF3 SWM YS11
     
    F9Animal
    Posts: 4540
    Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

    Re: A220 - loud noise when lowering gear?

    Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:53 am

    Literally reading this, and a 220 just passed our house. And there was a brief high pitched howl. Gears were already down. But, it was enough for me to look up.
    I Am A Different Animal!!
     
    strfyr51
    Posts: 5106
    Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

    Re: A220 - loud noise when lowering gear?

    Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:16 am

    F9Animal wrote:
    Literally reading this, and a 220 just passed our house. And there was a brief high pitched howl. Gears were already down. But, it was enough for me to look up.

    At some pint in he descent the power is advanced for the landing transition. I've never heard the GTF as I no longer live near any airport except Travis AFB (Joint Base Travis)
     
    deltaffindfw
    Topic Author
    Posts: 1520
    Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 7:42 am

    Re: A220 - loud noise when lowering gear?

    Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:38 am

    I just got a video of it. It happens right over the house.
     
    TW870
    Posts: 1301
    Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:01 am

    Re: A220 - loud noise when lowering gear?

    Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:40 am

    bomber996 wrote:
    I was at Lake Harriet near MSP the other day (directly under the approach path) and heard the same howl. The aircraft is definitely quieter than the CRJ-900's or B737-900's, but that howl definitely took me by surprise. Very cool though.

    Peace :box:


    Yep, I live near Lake of the Isles, so further north of the approach to 12L/R, and the whale song is still very audible. My apartment looks south toward the airport, and that noise is one of the only airplane sounds I can hear when the airport is in east flow. Every time I notice it, I look out side and see and A220 gliding in. The aircraft is entirely silent except for the whale song during thrust changes. Watch any YouTube A220 takeoff video and you will hear it right as they push the power up for takeoff. Such a fantastic airplane and I cannot wait to get on it once this COVID nightmare calms a bit.
     
    User avatar
    DLHAM
    Posts: 600
    Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:10 am

    Re: A220 - loud noise when lowering gear?

    Thu Dec 31, 2020 11:20 am

    DLHAM wrote:
    kimimm19 wrote:
    There are a few distinct noises to the A220.

    The first one is as people are saying on spool up which I've heard be called the 'Vulcan howl'.

    The second is on approach sometimes which has a kind of whaling sound which I believe is either the RAM (I think it's called) turbine or the hydraulic system.


    Would love to see a video where this sound is noticeable. I live very close to Hamburg Airport, but far from approach paths.


    Now I managed to get this howl on a video myself! This was an extreme howl -- this should be the exact same noise/source of noise that also happens at certain stages of thrust on approach.

    YouTube - A220 Takeoff from Hamburg with Vulcan Howl - starting at 4 sec
    My Instagram Account: Instagram
     
    jacrowley48
    Posts: 8
    Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 1:20 am

    Re: A220 - loud noise when lowering gear?

    Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:27 pm

    I work at the end of the last high speed off 17L at DFW, and hear that same howl as they spool up to take the ER bridge. I don't even have to look up to know what it is.
     
    seat1a
    Posts: 667
    Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:52 pm

    Re: A220 - loud noise when lowering gear?

    Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:30 am

    Hear that engine howl or change in pitch pretty much every day here in Seattle when they fly in from the north. It's last five to ten seconds. WTH is it?!
     
    speedbird2263
    Posts: 206
    Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:07 pm

    Re: A220 - loud noise when lowering gear?

    Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:12 pm

    I believe it may be attributed to the PW GTF design, anecdotal perhaps however, I fly the A321 NEO and on spool up a very similar sound may be heard.
    Straight'n Up 'N Fly Right Son
     
    User avatar
    LyleLanley
    Posts: 381
    Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:33 pm

    Re: A220 - loud noise when lowering gear?

    Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:17 pm

    I agree the sounds add character, but I can see how it would get old. Don't buy a home on the approach path if you don't enjoy airplane noises...

    Apart from the Vulcan's incredible howl, I think honorable mention should go to the F-22's howl https://youtu.be/W6weJN6qUww?t=40 and to the F-15's engine nozzles https://youtu.be/cfuZW783NMg?t=160. Both noises go straight through standard insulation used in military billets when you're trying to get some sleep for your upcoming night flight...

    strfyr51 wrote:
    I've never heard the GTF as I no longer live near any airport except Travis AFB (Joint Base Travis)


    Not trying to be pedantic or anything, but although there are Navy and Army units based there it's still Travis AFB :smile:
    "I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrook, and, by gum, it put them on the map!"
     
    User avatar
    Starlionblue
    Posts: 20606
    Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

    Re: A220 - loud noise when lowering gear?

    Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:25 am

    LyleLanley wrote:
    I agree the sounds add character, but I can see how it would get old. Don't buy a home on the approach path if you don't enjoy airplane noises...

    Apart from the Vulcan's incredible howl, I think honorable mention should go to the F-22's howl https://youtu.be/W6weJN6qUww?t=40 and to the F-15's engine nozzles https://youtu.be/cfuZW783NMg?t=160. Both noises go straight through standard insulation used in military billets when you're trying to get some sleep for your upcoming night flight...

    strfyr51 wrote:
    I've never heard the GTF as I no longer live near any airport except Travis AFB (Joint Base Travis)


    Not trying to be pedantic or anything, but although there are Navy and Army units based there it's still Travis AFB :smile:


    I suspect somewhere in the design brief for the F-35 was the phrase "must be louder than an F-22 or a Viggen". Man, that thing is loud. The B model in hover is even louder. Uncomfortable even with ear protection.

    https://youtu.be/YcyHgXIK91w
    "There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
     
    User avatar
    LyleLanley
    Posts: 381
    Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:33 pm

    Re: A220 - loud noise when lowering gear?

    Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:56 am

    Starlionblue wrote:
    I suspect somewhere in the design brief for the F-35 was the phrase "must be louder than an F-22 or a Viggen". Man, that thing is loud. The B model in hover is even louder. Uncomfortable even with ear protection.

    https://youtu.be/YcyHgXIK91w


    I believe it's from all the money being poured down the burner can :lol:

    I've never heard a B or a Viggen, but the A was loud enough to believe. I don't envy the final checkers when the B and C are on the boat.
    "I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrook, and, by gum, it put them on the map!"
     
    User avatar
    aal151heavy
    Posts: 127
    Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:00 pm

    Re: A220 - loud noise when lowering gear?

    Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:06 am

    A recent episode of Flightradar 24 Podcast had someone from PW explaining what the sound is. Go to time 20:48 - "low power transient combustor tone".

    https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/avta ... hale-song/


    speedbird2263 wrote:
    I believe it may be attributed to the PW GTF design, anecdotal perhaps however, I fly the A321 NEO and on spool up a very similar sound may be heard.
    My airliners.net photos
     
    speedbird2263
    Posts: 206
    Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:07 pm

    Re: A220 - loud noise when lowering gear?

    Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:13 pm

    aal151heavy wrote:
    A recent episode of Flightradar 24 Podcast had someone from PW explaining what the sound is. Go to time 20:48 - "low power transient combustor tone".

    https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/avta ... hale-song/


    speedbird2263 wrote:
    I believe it may be attributed to the PW GTF design, anecdotal perhaps however, I fly the A321 NEO and on spool up a very similar sound may be heard.


    Excellent, Thank You! That’s a very interesting Podcast; I’ve always wondered about that “anomaly” being associated with the PW motor.
    Straight'n Up 'N Fly Right Son

    Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: Starlionblue and 29 guests

    Popular Searches On Airliners.net

    Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

    Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

    Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

    Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

    Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

    Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

    Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

    Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

    Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

    Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

    Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

    Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

    Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

    Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

    Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos