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TheWorm123
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Engineer examining engine on landing

Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:59 pm

So yesterday I arrived home on G-JZHH (Jet2 738) and once we were at the gate and deboarding on airstairs, I noticed a lone engineer was shining a torch into the fanblades.

Does this mean something went wrong with the engine in flight or is just a routine check? I doubt it was much out of the ordinary as the flight was normal and neither engine was making weird noises.
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j3ster1369
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Re: Engineer examining engine on landing

Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:10 pm

Could be as simple as the pilots noticed a bird in close proximity and thought they may have ingested it through the engine. They may have also noted higher than normal engine vibration indications during the flight and reported that so the technician is doing a visual exam to see if there are any noticeable deformities or abnormalities before performing any further more intrusive testing/diagnostics. Lastly, it may be time for a line check of the aircraft and could just be a routine visual check.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Engineer examining engine on landing

Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:25 pm

TheWorm123 wrote:
So yesterday I arrived home on G-JZHH (Jet2 738) and once we were at the gate and deboarding on airstairs, I noticed a lone engineer was shining a torch into the fanblades.

Does this mean something went wrong with the engine in flight or is just a routine check? I doubt it was much out of the ordinary as the flight was normal and neither engine was making weird noises.

could just be nightly maintenance since the plane was done for the day.
 
rampbro
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Re: Engineer examining engine on landing

Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:26 pm

This sounds pretty normal. When I worked ramp the base AME would always be on hand to greet the RON a/c and do a planned inspection. First thing they would always do is a walkaround, including an engine check with a flashlight. By the time we'd have the bags off, they'd be up in the a/c checking stuff out.
 
Avgeek21
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Re: Engineer examining engine on landing

Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:30 pm

Engineers always greet an incoming aircraft and they do their post-flight inspection. It's routine. Pilots usually call in ahead of arrival to inform the company of any issues and arrival time and request gate info. The tolerances in terms of vibration are quite high and you'd feel it pretty quick if one does.
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: Engineer examining engine on landing

Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:37 pm

Avgeek21 wrote:
Engineers always greet an incoming aircraft and they do their post-flight inspection. It's routine. Pilots usually call in ahead of arrival to inform the company of any issues and arrival time and request gate info. The tolerances in terms of vibration are quite high and you'd feel it pretty quick if one does.


Always is a strong word, and certainly not my experience in 121 flying.
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jomur
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Re: Engineer examining engine on landing

Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:46 pm

Its standard procedure at Jet2. The engineers do a quick visual check every time the aircraft arrives back at its base. Seen it at every arrival I have met in.
 
AA737-823
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Re: Engineer examining engine on landing

Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:03 pm

Greetings from an engineer, though not one for that airline.
Yes, we do a walkaround after many flights. Checking fan blades for damage is one of the things we must do.
Most airlines won't do this at an outstation, but rather once the plane returns to home base. The first officer will do walkarounds the next morning, if the plane will "Remain OverNight (RON)" at outstations, and check the blades himself.
Hope that info is helpful to you. Happy flying!
 
wjcandee
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Re: Engineer examining engine on landing

Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:35 pm

TWA's contract with the IAM required a licensed A&P to meet every flight. Very-expensive. Something they tried for years to change. Advantage was that when something was wrong, there was somebody actually competent to fix it pretty-fast. But usually totally-unnecessary.
 
unimproved
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Re: Engineer examining engine on landing

Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:11 pm

wjcandee wrote:
TWA's contract with the IAM required a licensed A&P to meet every flight. Very-expensive. Something they tried for years to change. Advantage was that when something was wrong, there was somebody actually competent to fix it pretty-fast. But usually totally-unnecessary.

A lot of airlines still work this way, either with their own outstation engineer or contract maintenance. With us the flight crew can only do a walk around on the narrowbody fleet and it isn't a common occurrence.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Engineer examining engine on landing

Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:17 pm

unimproved wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
TWA's contract with the IAM required a licensed A&P to meet every flight. Very-expensive. Something they tried for years to change. Advantage was that when something was wrong, there was somebody actually competent to fix it pretty-fast. But usually totally-unnecessary.

A lot of airlines still work this way, either with their own outstation engineer or contract maintenance. With us the flight crew can only do a walk around on the narrowbody fleet and it isn't a common occurrence.


With a licensed A&P? For every flight? I thought that most carriers had ground staff that did certain duties that met the aircraft, and mechanics available generally, but not a full-fledged licensed A&P for every flight at every gate. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.
 
TheWorm123
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Re: Engineer examining engine on landing

Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:39 pm

Thanks for all the responses so far, seems like a normal practice if anything needs doing etc.

jomur wrote:
Its standard procedure at Jet2. The engineers do a quick visual check every time the aircraft arrives back at its base. Seen it at every arrival I have met in.


Interesting thank you, I’ve only used air bridges when flying before this flight so I’ve never been that closed to the engines.

Only other time I’ve seen checks being made was getting off G-VYGL last year, but I saw it from the corridor to passport control at MAN at about 4am. Not sure if it was a Jet2 engineer though as G-VYGL is an A330.
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fr8mech
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Re: Engineer examining engine on landing

Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:24 am

As is usually the case with a Part 121 carrier, it all depends on what the carrier has gotten approved by their regulator. At our manned stations, we have an AMT look over every aircraft that comes in. It's called a, if you can imagine, Walk-Around-Inspection (WAI). They make sure all the big pieces are there and no obvious leaks or damage.

Not sure what Jet 2's procedures are, but I suspect they're probably pretty similar, only operating under EASA's guidance and oversight.
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Starlionblue
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Re: Engineer examining engine on landing

Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:56 am

AA737-823 wrote:
Greetings from an engineer, though not one for that airline.
Yes, we do a walkaround after many flights. Checking fan blades for damage is one of the things we must do.
Most airlines won't do this at an outstation, but rather once the plane returns to home base. The first officer will do walkarounds the next morning, if the plane will "Remain OverNight (RON)" at outstations, and check the blades himself.
Hope that info is helpful to you. Happy flying!


I'll add that First Officer only preflight walkarounds are, I think, a Boeing thing. On Airbus, the PM for the upcoming sector does the walkaround. This can be either Captain or FO. (Or a relief pilot for that matter.)

One of the steps is to inspect the blades for damage. And at night you need a torch. One of the reasons the ops manual requires us to carry a torch.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
milhaus
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Re: Engineer examining engine on landing

Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:28 am

Greetings from line engineer, most companies in Europe use crew concept now, so all preflights are performed by crew. Usually captains at home base and f/os' outside. Engineers are called for daily or line check. Preflight checks are still done on ETOPS flights.
 
e38
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Re: Engineer examining engine on landing

Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:35 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply # 14), "I'll add that First Officer only preflight walkarounds are, I think, a Boeing thing."

not sure I understand the statement--a Boeing thing. At the company at which I work, in the United States, we have a mix of Boeing and Airbus aircraft and it is flight operations (company) policy that the PM for the upcoming flight conducts the exterior inspection. It is not dependent on the aircraft manufacturer. At a previous company where I worked, the flight operations policy was that the first officer conducted every preflight exterior inspection; again, not dependent on manufacturer or type of aircraft.

Quoting 737-823 (Reply # 8), "The first officer will do walkarounds the next morning, if the plane will "Remain OverNight (RON)" at outstations, and check the blades himself."

Our procedure is similar, however, if the aircraft is to RON at an outstation, one of the pilots does a complete walkaround immediately following the flight (post-flight inspection) and if any discrepancies are noticed, maintenance is called right away. That way, if there are any issues, maintenance can resolve them overnight and the subsequent departure in the morning is not delayed. Of course, in the morning, the on-coming PM also conducts the standard pre-flight walkaround.

wjcandee, at the company at which I work, we have company maintenance personnel at all the major stations who check the aircraft each time it transits that airport. However, at many of the outstations, we do not have company mechanics. Instead, the company sets up a contract with a local FBO or ground support corporation to provide maintenance only "if required." At those airports, the crews simply conduct the exterior inspections and check the fluid levels (engine oil, hydraulic quantity, oxygen pressure) and we only call contract maintenance if needed. There are some outstations, with many flights, that have company mechanics, but not at every one. Unfortunately, I do not know what criteria is used (number of operations) that dictates whether or not company maintenance or contract maintenance is used.

e38
 
stratosphere
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Re: Engineer examining engine on landing

Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:49 pm

wjcandee wrote:
unimproved wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
TWA's contract with the IAM required a licensed A&P to meet every flight. Very-expensive. Something they tried for years to change. Advantage was that when something was wrong, there was somebody actually competent to fix it pretty-fast. But usually totally-unnecessary.

A lot of airlines still work this way, either with their own outstation engineer or contract maintenance. With us the flight crew can only do a walk around on the narrowbody fleet and it isn't a common occurrence.


With a licensed A&P? For every flight? I thought that most carriers had ground staff that did certain duties that met the aircraft, and mechanics available generally, but not a full-fledged licensed A&P for every flight at every gate. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.


I am sure it stipulated where [email protected] mechanics are manned. When I worked for NWA we always did walk arounds at stations that that had [email protected]'s staffed. We had plenty of stations that did not have [email protected]'s there only the F/O's did the walkarounds and if a problem was found they either called in contract maintenance or we flew in on a road trip from a manned station. [email protected] also did pushbacks then as well but again only at stations where [email protected]'s were staffed otherwise ramp personal did them. NWA was probably the last airline to have [email protected]'s doing pushbacks now ramp agents do all that. Pilots did walk arounds every flight regardless. I can't speak to other countries and their processes.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Engineer examining engine on landing

Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:57 pm

This is all very interesting! Thank you!
 
Dalmd88
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Re: Engineer examining engine on landing

Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:34 pm

When I worked in Line mtc we did thru flight inspections pretty regularly. They were not required by our mtc plan but we did them when ever we were not busy with another issue. The logic was, I would rather do a walk around and find something before it was a callout by the crew. Usually if they call, you are running out of time and are possibly taking a delay.
 
mmo
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Re: Engineer examining engine on landing

Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:48 pm

When I worked for a US 121 carrier, there was a "through flight" inspection required at the end of every flight. Generally, before we left the aircraft an MX engineer stuck his/her head in the cockpit to make sure the aircraft was fine. When I worked for SQ and for QR, a ground engineer met the aircraft after every leg. This was on the 777/787 and it was pretty much the same thing. Under those carrier Ops Specs, it was a required inspection which had to be accomplished. If you were at a divert station the PIC could sign the inspection off.
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Starlionblue
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Re: Engineer examining engine on landing

Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:04 am

e38 wrote:
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply # 14), "I'll add that First Officer only preflight walkarounds are, I think, a Boeing thing."

not sure I understand the statement--a Boeing thing. At the company at which I work, in the United States, we have a mix of Boeing and Airbus aircraft and it is flight operations (company) policy that the PM for the upcoming flight conducts the exterior inspection. It is not dependent on the aircraft manufacturer. At a previous company where I worked, the flight operations policy was that the first officer conducted every preflight exterior inspection; again, not dependent on manufacturer or type of aircraft.


I read an interview with a Qantas Captain transitioning a Boeing to the A380. He specifically mentioned that on the Airbus walkaround duties were shared, and on the Boeing it had been the FO. I hadn't thought much of it until AA737-823 mentioned that the first officer does the walkaround. I had the impression it was a Boeing thing.

Operator procedures can vary as well of course. I guess I should ask one of our own Boeing guys. :)
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Dalmd88
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Re: Engineer examining engine on landing

Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:42 am

mmo wrote:
When I worked for a US 121 carrier, there was a "through flight" inspection required at the end of every flight. Generally, before we left the aircraft an MX engineer stuck his/her head in the cockpit to make sure the aircraft was fine. When I worked for SQ and for QR, a ground engineer met the aircraft after every leg. This was on the 777/787 and it was pretty much the same thing. Under those carrier Ops Specs, it was a required inspection which had to be accomplished. If you were at a divert station the PIC could sign the inspection off.

777 and 787 are both ETOPS. Before every ETOPS flight there is a required AMT inspection. Only ETOPS qualified mechanics are allowed to do some of the inspection items. Rules are also that each engine has to be worked by a separate qualified mechanic. The non critical items can be done by a non ETOPS qualified mechanic. The ETOPS PreDeparture Check is pretty involved and actually has a time limit. If the plane didn't fly before it expired, we had to do another one. I think we had the divert rule also where the PIC could do a shortened version if they didn't divert for an ETOPS item.
 
737tanker
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Re: Engineer examining engine on landing

Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:06 pm

wjcandee wrote:
unimproved wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
TWA's contract with the IAM required a licensed A&P to meet every flight. Very-expensive. Something they tried for years to change. Advantage was that when something was wrong, there was somebody actually competent to fix it pretty-fast. But usually totally-unnecessary.

A lot of airlines still work this way, either with their own outstation engineer or contract maintenance. With us the flight crew can only do a walk around on the narrowbody fleet and it isn't a common occurrence.


With a licensed A&P? For every flight? I thought that most carriers had ground staff that did certain duties that met the aircraft, and mechanics available generally, but not a full-fledged licensed A&P for every flight at every gate. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

For many year WN had A&P mechanics not only meet the aircraft at the gates at KDAL but also push them back. This was only at KDAL and was a carry over from when they first started operations. The practice didn't end until the mid 2000s
 
Avgeek21
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Re: Engineer examining engine on landing

Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:31 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
Avgeek21 wrote:
Engineers always greet an incoming aircraft and they do their post-flight inspection. It's routine. Pilots usually call in ahead of arrival to inform the company of any issues and arrival time and request gate info. The tolerances in terms of vibration are quite high and you'd feel it pretty quick if one does.


Always is a strong word, and certainly not my experience in 121 flying.


Yes true. My bad. What I meant was in all commercial outfits I've worked for in Europe and the Middle East the aircraft (home base) always got greeted by an engineer.

On my current Boeing aircraft it's the FO who does the walkaround at home base only and Captains only at outstations. Technically speaking (aka regarding our manuals) the FO does not even have to do a walkaround at home base as it's already done by our engineer. It's preferred but not required for dispatch as long as the engineer does it. (and that is always) Our procedure will change this year to allow the FO to do a walkaround and refueling at outstation too if/when the Commander deems it ok. Captain will still sign the techlog though. Just to level the workload between CPT/FO.
 
unimproved
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Re: Engineer examining engine on landing

Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:06 am

Dalmd88 wrote:
mmo wrote:
When I worked for a US 121 carrier, there was a "through flight" inspection required at the end of every flight. Generally, before we left the aircraft an MX engineer stuck his/her head in the cockpit to make sure the aircraft was fine. When I worked for SQ and for QR, a ground engineer met the aircraft after every leg. This was on the 777/787 and it was pretty much the same thing. Under those carrier Ops Specs, it was a required inspection which had to be accomplished. If you were at a divert station the PIC could sign the inspection off.

777 and 787 are both ETOPS. Before every ETOPS flight there is a required AMT inspection. Only ETOPS qualified mechanics are allowed to do some of the inspection items. Rules are also that each engine has to be worked by a separate qualified mechanic. The non critical items can be done by a non ETOPS qualified mechanic. The ETOPS PreDeparture Check is pretty involved and actually has a time limit. If the plane didn't fly before it expired, we had to do another one. I think we had the divert rule also where the PIC could do a shortened version if they didn't divert for an ETOPS item.

Before every flight, but also after for oil filling which is limited to a timeframe after engine shut down.
 
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HAWK21M
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Re: Engineer examining engine on landing

Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:44 pm

Part of the Routine Scheduled Transit Inspection pre flight.
A General visual check of the Blades & surrounding areas for Damage, FOD etc
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